Some years ago I had a very good friend in the USA who owned and displayed many fine aircraft. He was an exceptional pilot. He always impressed people with his fine judgement and handling abilities in many types.

What wasn't so impressive was carrying out a fast flypast of another of his, slower, aeroplanes being piloted by somebody else. He flew so close that his tail flew through the propeller arc of the slower aircraft before diving almost vertically into the ground and killing himself and his passenger. The other aircraft managed to land safely.

He was an exceptional pilot with fine judgement. Sadly he is but one of many who believed in their own infallability.

I am sure the Airbus display pilot in the video also has exceptional piloting skills.

The crowd went 'wow' because they thought they were about to watch the thing auger in! :rolleyes:

Even Bob Hoover's displays leave a lot more margin for error than this. Don't give me the crap about visible horizons and photographic errors and so on, it was very, very close to the ground.

RNZAF does similar things in their 757 and I've never been too comfortable watching that either!

This Thread is the Perfect Reflection of all those who come here and "HAVE NO WINGS" at their Hearts...:ugh:
Call me names, insult me, do what you want...but this is THE TRUE AVIATION SPIRIT!!!
FIVE STARS;COLOSSAL DISPLAY....:D:D:D
PS: And yes....Im Portuguese too...And by the way....Check it;) »»»

http://www.linhadafrente.net/modules...=100719#100719

:ok::ok::ok:

Which one was Bud Holland?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Holland

There is only 1 word that comes to mind watching that video

IDIOT

Absolute lunatic, there is no way the PF could intentionally fly the wingtip that close to the ground:=:=

Old pilots and bold pilots etc...........

IDIOT:mad:

I'm probably wrong here but the turn he makes doesn't seem very balanced from what I can see. It looks like he forgot to use the rudder (like many seem to these days), and it simply rolling the wings, rather lazy for low speed, low alt manovering
Looks impressive though but I'd wager he wasn't fully aware of the wing tip distance. If he does that manouver often enough to "know it" dunt say too much for his employer.

Bud Holland
 

This relatively safe climbing turn that was quite benign in still air close to the ground and was only increased in angle once a positive climb was established cannot be compared to a cowboy who took an aircraft beyond its aerodynamic envelope. If you can't see the difference between the two circumstances then neither I nor anyone else will ever be able to help you see beyond your blind prejudices.

I wish to stress that I do not deny that there was an element of risk in the performance. There is an element of risk in everything to do with aviation, my point has been that although this LOOKED like a risky manoeuvre, in the hands of a good pilot, in the conditions prevailing on the day, the risk was relatively minimal. There will always be wowsers who demand that ALL risk be removed from all activities. There are also those amongst us (and I am one) who are prepared to face a small amount of risk in my life to ensure I actually LIVE MY LIFE.

I would prefer it if wowsers and stick-in-the-muds, who think an airshow should be about aircraft flying down the flightline at 500 minimums wings level until they exit the airshow boundaries, stay at home and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy the feeling of being alive.

Glad to hear it!!!
 

That puts my mind at rest. Fully trained in the sim, how many times did the sim auger in before they got it right?

Challenger and Columbia were fully trained in the sim too I think.

Did the pilots train for a simulated bird strike? Even a very small bird? What they did was obviously safe (they did it then went to the pub after) but left ZERO margin for error or equipment failure.

Sorry that stunt was dangerous, a low level fly past gear down, then a straight climb then a bank would be a good display of a civil airliner.

Hey they could even have packed the plane with tabloid journalists and announced "ladies and gentlemen, this is what a go-around feels like"

This da^^^^%d hotel computer is programmed to block any YouTube videos.

Although the A-310 is quite different than the A-320, the A-320 which crashed into the woods at an airshow with people in the cabin was flown by a factory pilot. Maybe the throttles were not in the TOGA detent before the 320 hit the trees?

Many pilots tend to trust their experience to help keep them out of trouble, or at least use it as a general guide.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:So....in some brilliant :mad: minds opinions this very Captain should be fired simply because he did a SUPERB&COLOSSAL Display of its own Plane on an AirShow,without any single Passenger, and wich was precisely that the main goal and objective...:confused::confused::confused:
So, taking and following that vast array of magnificient opinions, every time we see such a landing like this with 200, 300, or 400 souls on board, we would loose for sure a nice couple of JetDrivers »»»
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdMZ6e6CVdA
Am i Missing somethin'here...????:ugh::uhoh::confused:
PS: Im a Portuguese Pilot Too..I Know VERY well that Aerodrome&Runway, and like Pprune Member "Five Green" said, we have some Downslopes there and some of the images&vids cannot precisely show what some are trying to say...:zzz:
But it was a Hell of a AWESOME DISPLAY...YYEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!:ok::ok::ok:;)

There are several more vids about that lowpass.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3Y8SZvK1U
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=H073hZzIU9g
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=gKEUwAnUK7Y (this time gear up and unspectacular)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=gKEUwAnUK7Y
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=vbF_kUGYCSc (shows both passes)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=0RxYSYliCFY

(shamelessly stolen from pilots.de)

JanetFlight, I don't get your point.

You posted a landing at Kai Tak, NORMAL landing for that airport.

Why do you equate that with a planned airshow stunt?

Can you explain to me ANY circumstance where a commercial airliner would need to bank so hard so close to the ground.

You say "awsome display" I beg to differ. Most people never saw that "SUPERB&COLOSSAL Display"

Notice the photographers running? That "SUPERB&COLOSSAL Display " was so low down that most of the spectators would not have seen it!!!!

EDIT, and this is important....

Watch all the videos and you will see spectators were on both sides of the runway.


:rolleyes:

I'd like to bet that the closest most of the posters of the "awesome" variety here have come to the edge of the performance envelope was when the batteries on their airband radio ran out!

Clowns like this have no place inside an aircraft, let alone a cockpit. Have any of you considered the implications of a failure (birdstrike anyone!) of the left engine as he rolls? - un-recoverable!!

Comparison with Bob Hoover
 

Someone compared this IDIOT (well said, ACMS), who survived only by pure luck, with Bob Hoover.

This is a great insult for Bob Hoover, who (among other things) is THE professional airshow pilot who always respects his / aircraft limits and still shows a spectacular performance.

This is, why he still is alive.

OK, so who are the so-called professional pilots who think it was safe - come on, own up then we can treat you as the numbnuts you really are when you next post on a subject?

I understand that in the UK, a display pilot will not get a licence to display below 50 feet (15 metres) - I doubt if the wingtip was much more than 2 to 3 metres above the ground in this manoeuvre - bear in mind that display pilots will normally be displaying aircraft with wingspans under 50 feet, whereas the A310 is what, 60 metres?

Go on - dare you....

Will meet with FP at TAP later this week - let's see what he thinks.

Nojwod :
So true, so true....very well said.

I'd love to hear about that !



And to the believers of the "extended self", how many times have you stubbed your toe? Or bumped your knee?

One little change in wind, some updraft, downdraft, not even to talk about any failure and this moron would have caused a nice fireball.
If you wnat to fly like that, take acro lessons or join the airforce. But GET OUT of an airline cockpit.

Nic

The pilot may well have exceptional flying skills but he demonstrated very little airmanship and apalling judgement in that display. On the basis of that performance he would certainly not be granted a Display Authorisation (DA) in UK.
Unless the rules have changed recently (I retired from display flying 5 years ago), the minimum height for straight flypasts in such aircraft is 100ft (300ft manoeuvring). It is therefore necessary to pull up from 100ft before turning even if it is not common sense to an individual pilot.
I have considerable display experience in Pitts S2A's and BAE 146's. I'd like to think that my 146 displays were spectacular enough to be enjoyed by the public without frightening them. I once had a slight slap on the wrist from the governing body (CAA) for infringing the 300ft rule when I relaxed a steep turn on a stick shake in gusty conditions - I only lost a few feet, but better to do that from 300ft than with my wingtip in the grass.
This foolhardy display was down to the PIC, NOT the airline - but if I was the chief pilot I think I would ground the pilot pending an investigation and start seriously questioning his responsibility and mental stability.

rts

Admiral :
That is the point, this was NOT an airline flight , but a Flight display/demo USING an airliner. Huge difference. If it had been the conclusion of a normal LHR-LIS flight, I would fully agree with you, pax did not pay tfor this. But it was not, and I doubt anyone would be interested to see an A310 doing a perfect ILS during an airshow.

Does anyone remember the B52 that crashed at a practice display in the States some years ago? Reminds me of that .....

Supposedly that pilot had come close to causing a fireball a few times previously and most crews had refused to fly with him....Finally he got his way and caused the disaster that was awaiting.....

Pity he took his crew with him ......

Even though this was a display flight and the aircraft was there to display, it is not a Eurofighter or an F15 and should have been displayed as an airliner with due respect to its size, manouverability etc.

Reckless disregard imho.

I still cannot beleive this event. I lifted this still from the video and am not going to even attempt to put a figure on the wingtip clearance. I think its appalling. This is a portrayal of proffessional commercial pilots that the industry could surely do without.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...mon/TAP310.jpg

I can't see what all this 'extended self' and 'super collosal' nonsense is. It wasn't actually that exciting a stunt anyway save for it's low altitude. If there'd have been some steep turns, high alpha climbs or other exciting manouvres I might have believed there was some superior airmanship involved. Instead all we got was the sort of 5 foot flyby I seem to do most landings without any special training except this guy left himself no way out if anything went wrong.

I sure ain't no display pilot,but surely part of the responsibility of those who do such things is to minimise the danger to those on the ground?
On that consideration alone-:=:=:=

More on Bud Holland:

http://www.crm-devel.org/resources/p...e/darkblue.htm

The trick is getting your risk assessment right.

What would Tex Johnston say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rILk6-4SMJQ

"Just don't do it again."

:ok:

Facts :

About the aircraft
1. The A310-300 carried no passengers.
2. The pilots of the A310-300 where amonst the ones with more hours flying this aircraft in TAP Portugal, one of them being the fleet pilot chief.
3. The manouvres were well prepared in advance and trained on the A310 simulator.

About the field
4. Évora is a small field with some particular aspects. One of them is the fact that the runways is at a higher level than the apron and the other side of the runway is also lower han the rounway itself.

Comments :

a. The participation of the A310-30, the first TAP Portugal participation on the Portugal Air Show ever, happened because the A310-30 is about to leave the fleet.
b. The manouvres were planned to show the full capacity of the airplane but were never intended to put the plane, the pilots or the ublic in risk. (the plane had arrived that morning from Caracas and left soon after the show to Brasil).
c. It's natural that both the public and some spotters thought that the wing was closer to the ground than in reality because they were standing on lower groun and lost the wing tip from sight due to the terrain.
d. Photos taken from higher level, from people standing on top of refuelling truck clearly show that there was no real proximity to terrain.


I had the opportunity to speak with the pilots, latter that day ...

The one thing they should have planned better was taking in account the terrain and the fact that people were standing on lower ground, making the manouvre a little bit higher wouldn't had make a difference on showing the aircraft (and pilots= capability but wouldn't have frighten the public.

Well this doesn't make any sense.


Well show me the photos that show the real not apparant wingtip clearance, where are these photos?

This fly past was highly unprofessional and has the hint of a management pilot out for a bit of a jolly.
Nobody would authorize a flight knowing what the intended tip clearance was going to be and the pilots would have no idea where any masts or aerials would be located on the field.
I bet this pilot never does a display again and that TAP management are considering their options very carefully.

App Radar, if you spoke to the pilots tell us that they were not management!

As a humble SLF. This Portuguese machismo stuff is seriously giving me the willies. Are there any sensible Portuguese out there willing to call this craziness for what it is? What is all this St. Exupery style gushing about transcendent experiences?

I've watched this a dozen times and each time I still have my heart in my mouth. Sorry if that makes me a dullard. I do not understand this supposed point about sloping perspectives, which the photographic evidence seems utterly to refute.

People seem to be wandering around inside the display box at random.

The whole thing is shabby.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...2passagem4.jpg

Reading the thread helps one find the photos....

;)

Just for comparison another airshow display which was low but in my humble opinion with more regards for safety than the A310 discussed here. The airline has since changed its name to Germanwings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxKjZZDl8PI

Well, according to info on airliners.net the PIC was Cpt César Brito, no less than the TAP Airbus A310 fleet last Chief Pilot.
Who is going to fire him?

Perhaps the guy is not a total idiot, but what he showed in Evora that day makes me doubt that very much! :ugh: :ooh:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/.../6/0051638.jpg
Bloody hell those BA pilots are hooligans....
Wouldn't find a TAP pilot doing that in a VC-10 would you?
;)

Is it immently dangerous - possibly
Did they get away with it - yes

What is it about airshows that result in (hopefully) disciplined pilots pushing the limits beyond what they need to make the show look good? All too often at an airshow someone spears in and occasionally it takes out an innocent party.

I love airshows and I love seeing transport aircraft going through their paces but if this clipped a wing and went in we would all be criticising the drivers.

Cheers

TH

We have done missed approaches in typhoon conditions from even lower levels with a full load of pax in the back and in screaming crosswinds. What's the big deal about a low level flypast and climbout by an experienced crew and empty aeroplane in good met?:confused:

photo & video
 

Found these

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6252723&size=l

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=et4Aut...elated&search=

don't think they have been posted here.

See the slope on the left side of rwy?

Speed 220km/h, by twr pa man.

Hotdog, can you confirm to us all that you are comparing this to a normal missed approach?

"2. The pilots of the A310-300 where amonst the ones with more hours flying this aircraft in TAP Portugal, one of them being the fleet pilot chief."

-Lots of flying hours (lineflying) alone does not make you a good display pilot.
-Chief pilots and other management pilots are more prone to incidents /accidents. This is inherent to their positions, because in them they don't fly much.
- Whatever they practised in the sim, you cannot judge wingtip height in low turns while flying a big airliner.

Even if they (he) were trained display pilots, this was dangerous and unprofessional and in no way will impress real pilots. And no, I am not a mere button pusher