BBC Tiredness Study
 

Tired pilots 'compromise safety'
 

Airline safety is being compromised by pilot fatigue, BBC News has found.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6236810.stm


Some 32 UK-based pilots said they had flown while unfit. Some blamed the situation on the intensity of work and managers ignoring their concerns.
A separate survey by pilots' union Balpa suggests 81% believe fatigue had affected performance; while 63% are flying more hours than five years ago.

UK-registered pilots may not fly more than 900 hours per year and there is no evidence this is being exceeded.

Industry groups say the airlines have an "exemplary safety record".

'Falling asleep'

Most airlines told the BBC News investigation their average hours had barely changed in the last few years.

The Civil Aviation Authority, which regulates the industry, estimates that pilots are flying 30% more hours than a decade ago but maintains the "finest flight time limitations system in the world" means fatigue is not an issue.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif

BBC research has found that the demand for more and cheaper flights - particularly short haul - has resulted in some pilots flying more hours and in some cases up to six flights per shift.

The pilots spoke anonymously for fear of losing their jobs.

One said: "I have fallen asleep unintentionally in the air where you close your eyes for a second and realise that 10 minutes have passed."
Another said: "A little minor thing can take your mind off the bigger task."

'Biggest issue'

Following the BBC's inquiries, the UK's largest pilots' union, the British Air Line Pilots' Association, questioned 534 of its members.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif In the UK we have some of the most regulated pilot flying hours and duty hours in the world http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif


Roger Wiltshire, BATA


Some 76% said their response times had been affected by fatigue, 72% said there had been an impact on decision-making skills and 41% they would refuse to fly if fatigued.

But 12% said they would not feel able to refuse duties even if exhausted, while a further 33% said they would refuse - but feared disciplinary action.
Overall, some 79% told Balpa the public should be concerned about fatigue.

Balpa chairman Mervyn Granshaw described fatigue is "the single biggest issue facing aviation".

He said: "At the moment we are not seeing it appear as accidents or incidents but we're getting closer to that point."

Encouraging sickies?

The industry highlights the fact that fatigue has only been cited as a cause in reported accidents and safety incidents on official databases in fewer than one in 1,000 cases.

Evidence gathered by the BBC suggests that fatigue has become a taboo subject and that pilots are scared of losing their jobs if they raise it.
"Whenever I reported that I was completely exhausted the operator says 'Are you refusing to do the duty?'" one said.

"He should not have been asking me, let alone bullying me into doing it."



The BBC has also learned of an incident on a flight to Europe.

The captain told his co-pilot he was exhausted, who suggested he "take five minutes kip - I'll take it from here".

As the captain rested his eyes the aircraft - on autopilot - began to turn, putting it on a collision course with another passenger plane.
Air Traffic Control radioed an urgent warning.

Realising there was no response the captain looked across to see his co-pilot asleep.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif How else are we going to get these people out of a situation where they could hazard an aeroplane? http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif


Dr Ian Perry


Corrective action was taken to avert danger. But in the incident report the pilot failed to mention that his colleague was asleep.

"I didn't want to get him into trouble," he told the BBC. "It's not his fault, it's basically what the company are doing."
Dr Ian Perry, one of the country's leading consultants in aviation medicine, says the number of pilots coming to see him who are chronically fatigued has doubled over the last five years to four or five people a fortnight, he said.

"I've been accused by some authorities of encouraging people to report a backache, a headache, a something - so they can have days off to recover from their fatigue.

"I don't deny it. But how else are we going to get these people out of a situation where they could hazard an aeroplane?"
The two groups, which represent the airlines in the UK, deny fatigue affects pilots.

John Hanlon, secretary general of the European Low Fares Airline Association, said: "Europe's low fare airlines have an exemplary safety record and this has been delivered by making safety the number one priority at all times."

He said a scheme is in place so its members' pilots were free to report any issues without having to divulge their identity.

Roger Wiltshire of the British Air Transport Association, said pilots are flying well within their regulated flying hour limits.
"Although short haul pilots are flying more hours than they were that's because the schedules are more efficient," he said.

Roger Wiltshire is an idiot. Am I allowed to say that?
And just who or what is the British Air Transport Assoc?
Apart from him, the report seemed about right although the cruddy reconstruction looked, well, cruddy.

Ofcourse pilots get tired, but if they're fatigued then it is their responsibility not to fly. For me its that simple.

Yes spaceman18 but isnt it also the reponsibility of the operators and the aviation authorities to ensure that pilot do not fly when fatigued?

If a majority of pilots are flying when suffereing from excess fatigue, as the BALPA survey suggests, then surely there is something wrong with the system which is creating this situation?

You may be lucky enough to fly with an operator which is supportive and doesnt bend the rules. Some of your collegaues with other companies are not so blessed.

In summary - if only it was as simple as you naievly suggest!

Like i said, for me it is that simple. Its my license, not theirs.

Actually Roger Wiltshire said a lot more than that.

I have just watched the item on the BBC 1 Six o'clock news and BALPA did say that it was getting dangerous.

Well as someone once famously said "They would say that, wouldn't they?"

It was probably a bit daft or Dr.Ian Perry to say on BBC's 6 O'Clock bulletin that he gave false notes to pilots to get them off work - he should have been honest in the first place anyway - but to say that on TV will probably have him struck off as a Doctor.

Happily retired now, but no mention ever seems to be made that there is no provision made for rest breaks in a day's work. Office or factory staff are strictly regulated in these matters, but aircrew can do a 12hr duty with no stops. At least in the cockpit you can relax in the cruise, but the cabin staff can work the whole duty without time for a sandwich! I know from experience that this happens all the time. As has been said often, flight duty times are used to the maximun by companies, and not a guideline for unusual circumstances as was the intention. The general public think that aircrew have more strict hours than lorry or bus drivers, but as we know, this is a lot of rubbish!

the ftl scheme works fine as long as it is adhered to.we all get tired for many reasons not to do with flying and many that do,like reporting for duty at 0500 or 2230 and working varying shift patterns.i find it difficult to rest before late starts and am always weary very early in the morning,but we are not machines.no different than lorry drivers,police officers,nurses,doctors ,the list goes on,all with varying responsibilities for peoples safety and their own.bit of a non story for me.

Most will not be aware that it took a major accident to get any form of flight time limitations - I believe this was at Singapore in the late 1950s.

Around the time when I joined the airlines (1970) the Bader report into fatigue caused FTL limits to be revised. Before Bader a nights work could be Toronto-Montreal-Prestwick-Manchester-we would then ferry to London! After Bader we had to get off at Prestwick and a relief crew took the service onwards.

Although modern aircraft are more reliable with accurate autopilots etc my hallucination is that we are operating in a much less "user-friendly" environment. Just getting to the airport (and even the crew report point) on time having to fight the traffic can be a stressful experience. We are then faced with banal security checks etc. Rapid turnrounds with high traffic densities at airports which need more runways. Constant RT chat (what about controller fatigue too?) and multiple frequency changes due sectorisation and many heading and level changes. The list is endless - I love my job and the challenges I am faced with but my feeling with the fatigue issue is to be reminded of the Swiss Cheese model. We need all the holes to line up to create an accident and fatigue is one of those holes!
Human beings can work in "overload" for short periods quite successfully but when overload is the norm we are stacking up the odds for something to go wrong.

Its not the amount of hours that we fly necessarily, it is the type of hours i.e. in the middle of the night after being delayed at home for 3 hours, you plan your rest based on your duty but then end up flying a lot longer into the night/ morning......seeing the sun come up when you did not plan too....zzzzzzzzzzzz! To say that there is more efficient rostering....what a load of bo###cks, the airlines, especially short haul, are so up against it with low seat yields they try to squeeze 26 hours flying into a 24 hour day which does not work and you end up with delayed flights, delayed crews working further into the night getting more fatigued etc etc and so on!:ugh::ugh: The Airline management and CAA will only take note when there is a serious accident its only a matter of time. Flight time limitations is an out of date document, the CAA need to move with the times!!:ugh:

Aerotoxic Syndrome?
 

The main symptom of Aerotoxic Syndrome (OP chemical poisoning) is chronic fatigue.

We all get fatigued and the roster is an easily measured and blamed factor but perhaps a mask of the real issuefor many people - both pilots, CC and passengers.

What about the factor that is not easily measured, you breathe all day long and is invisible?

Contaminated air. :eek:

Pity the BBC don't want to find out...why? - it is bad news and it ain't going to go away.

DB :ouch:

Roger Wiltshire?
 

Roger Wiltshire can say what ever he wants.
He clearly has no connection to REAL aviation, or he's paid by some airline to say anti pilot things.
Equals: AntiSafe To$$er.
Mr Wiltshire pm me with an email addy for a few choice words I could use "off air" please. Where the hell have you been while we are flying exhausted???
Just as a matter of fact Mr Whiltshire, tell us what do you know about FTLs???
Do FTLs take into account the following?
The type of weather, the type of defects we carry, the type of approaches we may have to make, the age of a pilot, the age of the aircraft we're forced to fly, the age and experience of my FO that I may have to prompt, the distance I have to travel to work, the delays I suffer, the bases I serve, the changes from earlies to lates in a realistic fashion, the number of airstarts in a 4 sector day....... etc. Do you even know what the above list means?
Who the hell is BATA? :mad: :mad: :mad:

So the CAA thinks its FTL Scheme to be the best in the world. Their spokesman also thinks that it is "robust". Well if that is the case why is it actively encouraging airlines to adopt their own variations on CAP371, supported by Fatigue Risk Management?
To my simple mind these two positions are incompatible, but what would I know, I'm just the poor fatigued pilot falling asleep at the controls.

Never been an air transport pilot but I must take issue with the "my license my responsibility" brigade. It takes a very secure pilot to say "yes" when asked "are you refusing the duty then?" More and more of you are paying for your ratings and accruing bigger and bigger debts. The companies' investment in you is minute compared with what it was when they used to pay for training. They have the attitude that there are plenty more where you came from. I have seen the same in other industries. The result is that health and safety take a back seat. Senior management will always say "safety is our prime objective" but it is the middle manager who is left with the resposibility of implementation and he is only going to be judged on whether schedules are kept to. Accidents are rare enough and pilot error will always be the finding.

Well done all of you who spoke up.

Well done to the BBC. Spot on.

I trust that that spoke from the CAA have never done 4 sector days with 20 min turn-arounds- 5 days running!

Well the BBC journo had solicited comments from members on this site so he seems to have done a fairly balanced report which reflected well the various vested interests.

I am not sure the public will be any the wiser though. If someone in authority says it is fine they go along with it.

17 hour week!
 

Reading the article most non pilots would think we work a 17 hour week.
They should refer to the max DUTY hours that short haul pilots are more likely to encroach. I worked 180 hours last month, work days typically 7-10 hours with no breaks at all for food or rest. Also It's not just the work load but lack of down time. I work three earlies, two lates then have 56 (can be reduced to 54) hours off. The same as leaving the office at 10pm friday and returning at 6 am Monday.