Are Virgin Flagging out?
 

Heard a rumour that Virgin are planning to use Air Atlanta to do some of their work?
Anyone have any more info?

Confirmed. 74-300 to be utilised Jan 2001. Due to advance notice of requirement, Cabin to be 'Virginised' this time.

It is actually an Air Atlanta ex-Cathay 747-200 (sister to VCAT and VRUM); it will be in Virgin colours with the same fit and IFE as those two aircraft, with Virgin cabin crew.
The reason it's happening is to cover the period while the Virgin classics' interiors are upgraded to the latest standard in an intensive programme early next year. I expect it will also help ease the disruption as the massive effort to get 7 new 744s in service over the next 18 months gets underway!

How is the classic cover on the ramp at LHR?

As I understand it Iceland is an EU partner and therefore enjoys EU status as far as labour exchange is concerned.

I do not see any problems as there are no restrictions on European licence holders gaining Icelandic validations.

MM

Very few of the Pilot's employed by Air Atlanta are EU citizens and are mainly of U.S. origin.

Totally unacceptable!

------------------
What The Hell's It Doing Now?

WTHIDN

Now you know how the Atlas folks feel about EU citizens taking their flying.

Agree it's unacceptable. So are double standards.

Cheers.

Just to set the record straight, Iceland is not EU but EFTA. More importantly, it is JAR as well. There are no difficulties validating your licence up there.

It's also worth pointing out that, as a member of EFTA (European Free Trade Association) Iceland is a member of what is termed the EEA (European Economic Area). The EEA covers the nations of the EU and EFTA and allows for free movement of labour.

With reference to Air Atlanta's non-european crewmembers, while it is true that they employ a large number of Americans and Aussies (among other nationalities) Atlanta has bases of operation outside of Europe as well as inside, for example Jeddah.

With the application of JARs, Atlanta are employing ever more European nationals. Given that Iceland has a population of less than three hundred thousand people it should also be seen as an encouraging sign that the bigger Atlanta grows, the more non-Icelandic Europeans they will employ.

Spotted a VA ad in this week's FI for 747 drivers on 6 and 12 month contracts. Is this connected with this thread, is there something else afoot at Virgin or is it a move to do the natives out of jobs?

For WTHIDN:

I'm afraid you're mistaken old chap...regarding US pilots with Air Atlanta.

I flew the VS fill-ins last summer for AAI and was one of the TWO native Yank 747 pilots in the batch. All the other US passports are ex-pat transplants....UK, BE, NO etc. The only other yanks were still on the Tri-Stars at the time.... Some on the 767 now I believe (not positive)...

What's the problem? Can't get on with Atlas?
Some of us worked our buns off for the JAR credentials, so we could work over here...so kwitcherbellyaching.

[This message has been edited by Kato747 (edited 17 May 2001).]

Quite right, Dallas Dude - all these (non JAA licence holding) Yanks should be banned from European operations until the playing field can be levelled with regard to the US being allowd to operate wet leases in Europe - but the US doesn't permit anyone else to operate wet leases over there.

Or were you saying something else? :) :) :)

Virg do not provide the flight deck for this operation, Atlanta do - so what is the problem with non EU nationals who have paid for the relevant conversions to their hard-earned licenses.
Perhaps if there were the resources available in the UK, Virg and other UK organisations would not have to go further afield to pull in extra capacity when required. Put up/shut up or go lease one yourself - pay for a UK/JAA AOC train the crews and then sit their waiting for the phone to ring! Please also note that Atlanta (apart from Corsair) are the only wide body high density charter aircraft operators in Europe. So where would you be doing your shopping??

I wonder what nationality Sunbird Crews are?

------------------
-------------------------
You fly em we'll fill em!

Grief Guvnor!
You're a self-proclaimed holder of illegally gained flight crew licences, who claims to have operated all over Africa. Now you're saying that US pilots should be prevented from working over the EU because they don't have local licences? Does this mean that you consider that they should be allowed in if they can buy licences off the back of a lorry like you claim to have done in Africa?

WTHIDN well said!
We all know that this lot are a pain in the butt. They have the lowest remunerated crews in the business and proudly proclaim that not a single cabin crew member is on a permanent contract! ( Though I accept that VS cabin crew may operate it on this ocassion).

Brothers, wherefore all this xenophobia all of a sudden?? Don't recall any complaints back in 1940.

On the VS flight the flightdeck and SCCM is AAI rest is VS.

Guys

On this contract all the Cabin are VS (except 1 Atlanta Senior), and AFAIK all the Flight Deck are UK, European or Icelandic.

rgds

T N

Guvnor (sigh),

My point was..if it's a Virgin product it ought to be a Virgin airplane (or at least crewed by Virgin staff). I've nothing against Atlanta (in fact I've never heard of them) but if you are sold a product with Sir Dick's mug on it you ought to get it, not a Mike Yarwood impersonation.

BA's cargo routes should be flown by BA. Period. This'll upset some of my friends but the big picture here is that if we allow the door to crack open, before long ALL flying will be done by the cheapest resource, just like trainers'(sneakers) are made in the cheapest Country right now. Until there's an accident, of course. But then, the bean counters will be safely behind their desks so what will they care. It's the cost of doing business, right?

In 1940 (strains of Rule Brittannia begin..) the UK Merchant Navy consisted of over 3000 ships with an approximate tonnage of 17.7 MILLION tons. Where is it now? (No, it wasn't all sunk by U boats). It was "re-flagged".
Because someone offered to do it cheaper!

Getting off on a bit of a tangent here but I'm sure you get my drift (pun intended).

By the way, are they still giving out African licences in Jamboree Bags?

dd