in the US, the FAA uses the term "PILOT IN COMMAND".

I can imagine that a pilot in the US doesn't have a clue about JAR OPS etc.

and vice versa

so, let us try to understand each other's terms and words.

taxy = taxi

color = colour

and whatever

Winscrn -

It used to be a convention that if you had either 5000 hours, an ATPL of some description or a Training (IRE) qualification, you were entitled to call yourself Captain. The trouble was that as smaller airlines became popular, they didn't have people so qualified and passengers were wary of flying with pilots who didn't have the shiny stuff on their sleeves. Thus, the various rank gradings have become blurred and you're a commander (small c) if you're in charge of any aircraft, in the same way that people in charge of smaller seagoing vessels are Ship's Masters, as opposed to Captains.

Phil

Long haul 4 man crew flights sometimes comprises of two captains,only one would be nominated as the commander for the flight.

OK - Once upon a time all Airline Captains looked like Dean Martin in Airport, all looked fantastic in uniforms and big-hats, the cabin crew (all female) were gorgeous and looking to find a pilot as a husband, the passengers were of a decent social class and appreciated the Captain wandering around during the cruise passing the time of day. All pilots had a good war record, drove good european sports cars, kept a labrador for good measure and of course they were all male - popsies in the rear cabin please. Yes, I'm sure the halcyon days of BOAC and PanAm were all like it was on the silver screen. The sunsets were that more golden, the night-stops were all in the best hotels, the parties went on till dawn - it was just the way you always imagined it would be.

I think some people need a little reality check - those rose-tinted glasses are obviously still available in the shops.

Politically Incorrect, but the Truth.
 

Boredcounter...get a life! Most of my FD colleagues espouse exactly the same opinions as mine, as you would have discovered had you taken my path. And I do fly, why on earth would I wish to pretend such a thing?

There is nothing sacred about customers, colleagues, and security goons that prohibits criticism/damnation on a public website. It is honest, causes no harm, and is everyones' right. Your response was quite unpleasant and personal, but I defend your right to post it publicly.

Since posting, I witnessed my colleague harassed about his 5ml eyedrops bottle, which was incorrectly packaged in his rather full flight bag. He did not appreciate the incident. This while on our way to a longish night flight. Lunatics are now running the asylum, and it provides an additional and un-necessary pressure to an already difficult job. Why should we have to put up with vindictive and stupid harassment at the hands of largely un-qualified and unintelligent people in uniforms? Orwellian situation.

I do agree that it is frustrating but you can´t really blame the "numnuts" working the security! They are just hired help that probably couldn't get an other job. It´s the stupid politicians and crappy airline management's fault that we´re being harassed the way we are! .. And that ultimately brings it back to ourselves, doesn't it! :ugh:

I agree with most of what you say. In your opinion what is doing OK? Also, what line of employment are you in?

I do hope the so called numbnuts in security dont read this thread as you could hardly blame them for making our lives more difficult after being labelled as dropouts scumbags etc. In my experience if you treat them with the respect they deserve as fellow earthlings, remembering the rules (SOPs) they are following are not written by them, then your lives will be less stressful. How do so called educated airline commanders get so stressed out by college dropouts? There are far too many Commanders out there and not enough pilots!

Time has changed, and we have no recourse but to face the harsh and grim realities of life nowadays. In the pre-terrorist era life in the aviation sector would have been much easier, better and more glamorous than it is today. Damn the terrorists for changing all this! :ugh:

The terrorists handed airline managments a machete to replace their scalples.

The airlines then synically used the fear & insecurity that 911 brought to push through changes that would never have been considered or tolerated pre-911.

At the time I remember us 'all pulling' together to ensure the survival of the company only to find that the company, the ones that did make it back into the black, had now found a more effective technique of job insecurity & fear to replace any form of respect.

My last hope is that as demand increases and supply dries up, airlines might just see that a new approach might secure the pilots they need... then again who am I kidding?

It is surprising how quickly you upgrade from busdriver when the aircraft starts to rock and roll and make loud and unusual noises, or spit fire and brimstone.
Mortal to divine in no time flat.
Just doesnt happen as much with these new-fangled machines, but it still happens.:ok:

ZQA297/30 sure agree with that!
Sometimes weather does the trick as well... handshakes, kisses (yeah, well) and compliments for plonking the metal on the planet when the dark sky is ripped by lightning or the trees bent forced by wind.

Could it be that pax fear is inversely proportional to pilot fun :}

commander
 

No relation to the initial thread, but to previous posts. Many pilots in command of well respected and very big European airlines refer to themselves as "aircraft commander". Simply a JAA definition. Nothing wrong with that, maybe it's less known over the pond, but the name exists and it is accepted in Europe. Personally I don't use it, but as I said, many pilots do.
rgds.

up your bum as they say
 

heres to you baywatcher, ill toast you with a cold one.used to be a time when management respected the fly boys and girls,the pilots respected the engineers and the cc had no respect on overnights (joke dont go crazy i love the plate chuckers) well as you say the good old days are fast drawing nay.between wannabes who would sell their sole for less to fly and then whinge in a years time about pay and conditions, go screw yourselves you know who you are.and management who would sell their grandmothers or the gold out of their kids teeth go screw as above .to the rest of us still in the game, all i can say is treat it like one, and turn it into a mind game .you screw me i screw you twice and ill raise a glass and toast the forefathers of aviation who sweat blood and tears to get what most of us enjoyed until repugnent low cost carriers and the so called leisure market reared its ugly liitle head and turned a once proud flying community into a pack of spineless whinging good for nothing backstabbing you know what "s .well thats my rant and congrats to a proud left seater enjoy sears robuks and coporate america

hear hear!

Things change, I always wanted to be an airline pilot as a youngster, but it is only now as a mature adult I have finally made it.

The reason I put it off was that in those days I thought you had to have a BBC accent, be an Old Etonian or else have flown Spitfires in the Battle of Britain.

Only in training have I met Lorry Drivers, Mechanics etc who have decided to change to piloting as a career.

In the days of the steam train every little boy aspired to be a train driver, nowadays its more likely to be done by a Polish immigrant or obtained from a postcard from the local job centre. The cudos of the train driver has well and truly gone.

Flying for joe public until recently has been rather exclusive, now with the advent of the loco's flying is for the masses and is just like jumping on a train. There is no posh English accent on the PA and pax are jammed in like sardines with non-existant cabin service and no reclining seats. The cudos of an airline pilot has diminished to that of a train driver for joe public and the voice on the PA has been replaced with a foreign pigeon English one.

On saying that I have read that more and more PAX are prepared to pay extra for premium seats even on charters, so if this becomes the norm and a more luxurious experience adopted onboard the pilot may regain his god-like status.

Deam on
 

Dear Mr Smythe - ups.... Smith

Dream on - people moving is like earth moving:
In people moving - first it was a donkey, now its jumbo's
In earth moving - first it was a spade, now its massive bulldozers and graders
If you don't like all the disadvantages of technology (global warming, microwave dinners) move to the jungle and eat worms, beatles, mushrooms and leaves;).

What is going on here some one's retiered to join sears and we are all cheerfull about that
Flying is a passion it is nothing else you dont have the passion might as well join sears they may say glad to have you hear we love ex passionless pilots :ugh:

Understand where you are coming from, sikeano, but some people change. I am sure all flyers have had that passion you speak of, but it doesn't surpass all. We are all different, some change, passions fade. Others are kindled.

Today is the first day after my ATPL theory exams expired.

Why didn't I take it further? It wasn't really the cost, nor the time. I just wanted to retain my freedom I think. I was slightly scared I might spend good money and at best, just sell my existing freedoms down the river, but that wasn't the real reason.

I used to tell anyone that would listen that being a pilot was to experience real freedom. I once told an old school acquaintance he was crazy to let his PPL lapse while he built a career and family doing other things. Now I have a different perspective.

My young son wants to be a pilot and is clever and rounded well enough to be very good one, but that means he'll have lots of other career choices too.

His Dad will fly tomorrow (in the back again) but just isn't bothered about controlling the machine anymore. The windows in the back are big enough to spark my imagination. I understand a great deal of the science of it, I can even teach my son ad astra, but not per ardua! Don't get me wrong, I am not tired of flying - I just don't need to prove my ability to make it happen to myself anymore.

When I first started working I remember I looked at a job with a big oil company and decided "Woah...nice salary, but you'll be selling your life there, matey! Stuck in a desert logging a drill hole". So I got a 9-5 career and a normal home-life which eventually bored me to tears (both!)

I am still in two minds as to whether I was daft or not to have let the exams lapse...even at my age and with no sign yet of a popping of the low cost aviation balloon I could probably have made good money flying somewhere based in the UK and padded out a nice comfy role, but from what I have seen first hand, and what I have read here on PPRuNe, I don't think I made the wrong choice, certainly for yours truly anyway. So go ahead, take the space in the queue ahead...

Besides, although I have renewed Class I a number of times, and look much fitter than average, I simply don't believe I am best fitted to deal with some emergencies. My ears and eyesight have aged, my brain is still quicker than average but no longer as quick as I think a commander of airliner's should be. Flying high in a stressful commercial enviroment is not going to improve my fitness either!

So I am quite surprised to see references to age limits being increased and medical renewal requirements relaxed as they are.

That's handy for people who want to fly, but it surely doesn't help maintain any standard.

I'm much like RoyHudd I think...got started late in aviation, even been known to voice my frustrations in the same unguarded tones sometimes! I'm definitely not the right type to enjoy working for unscrupulous beancounters and their lawyers. I've upset a few in my time with my straight-talking.

I am also pretty sure that I might not see eye to eye with some ex-lorrydrivers and ex-Essex motor dealers turned PP who are probably exquisitely laundered senior captains by now. I'm not saying they can't do the job as well as most. But you don't have to actually like everybody, do you?

So instead, I've relaxed a bit and will enjoy the freedoms I've already got rather than trading them for a few tens of thou and locking myself into a tight space for eight hours a day - besides, at 50 next year, I can start thinking about how to manipulate what's left of the few tens of thou in the pension funds that built up in the good old days that ended with the last century!

My only regret is that I can't advise my son truly on what's good and what's bad about becoming a PP. I guess I can always point him here (after I have stopped posting and skewing it, of course!)

Cheers to you, baywatcher! You actually did it all!

Right on the mark. At first all I wanted to do was fly. Did that. Got all my licenses and then all I wanted was to fly single engine fighters. Loved doing it, excelled at it, but did not particularly like the military.... sooooo. Then all I wanted was to fly with the airlines.. Did that. After a few bankruptcies with me getting nothing and management coming out completely whole I found a carrier that is actually still in business with a retirement and I am retiring. Now at the end of my career I can say I had a passion to fly, I still have a passion to fly but my overall outlook on the last 46 years of flying is completely different than when I was 14 and , "All I wanted to do was fly."

"We are all different, some change, passions fade." How very true.