AC deicing procedure ?
 

For that late evening departure out of YYZ, with no precipitation, we are still at the deicing pad where the deicing fluid type 1 has just been generously applied by a qualified crew who did proceed with the mandatory critical surface inspection when ... on the PA the CAPT advises that part of the new deicing procedure at Air Canada, the FO will go through the aisle to check the wings ...
... what's the story behind that ???!!!

Captain had dropped coffee on his shirt and didnt want to be seen in the back???

Cheers!!!

The fully qualified de-icing crew weren't flying the aircaft the Captain was. If thats what he wants that what he gets. In the end he signs to accept the aircraft.

But If you read properly that guy had no choice than following a SOP ... and the question is why suddenly that SOP ?

Must be getting standard now, its just come in in our airline.
"The crew must be absolutely sure the surface of the wing is free from contaminates prior to takeoff. And after de-icing a visual inspection must be carried out."
Or something along those lines.

Incident in Bos precipated procedure. De-ice crew forgot to spray one wing. Fuel truck was in the way and they neglected to come back and spray remaining wing. Now required to visually check after every spray.

I wonder what the ,say RJ146, captain will be supposed to do next?
" Ladies and gentelmen stay relaxed as our FO opens the door and jumps out to verify wings clear of ice. If you, by any chance ,carry on your small private ladder do not hesitate and use to assist him/her to make things faster. thank you"
ch767

Flew the 146. The best way to see the wing was to open the rear door and look forward.

Sounds like a damm good Idear to me, both as a pax and as an eng! What better view than through the pax windows and what better judge of de-icing than one of the guys up front!

Rgds Dr I

SOP or not it is simple commonsense to check that such a vital procedure has been carried out fully. On more than one occasion in my career it hadn't.
All it takes is a quick look out of the door (having made sure that it's disarmed!)
One of those things that used to be called "airmanship".

You are joking, right? :bored:

The Capt or FO coming back to take a look out the window bothers people? Why?

Hell of a fine idea IMHO! People make mistakes.

It is the Capts responsibility ect. ect. ect :E

Then again maybe it was because there was a "BABE" in row 7.

I departed a 744 recently from LHR with icy wings due high inbound fuel load.

Capt asked for deicing crew, but possibly due to comm error between he and I, he neglected to check the procedure had been actioned and pushed back without the deicing being done.

Much red faces as he returned to stand 3 mins later to have the job done - the tug crew pointed out the ice to the capt (well done chaps)

IF they hadn't noticed / realised the seriousness, could have been nasty.

That wouldn't have happened if one of the crew had popped back for a look...

You dont specify when the inspection was done. Was it just before takeoff or after the initial de-ice?...if it was just before take-off then it is a requirement if the minimum holdover time has been exceeded that a visual inspection is carried out prior to take-off.
As there is no hold over time for type 1 fluids then this may have come into play.

If it was still at the CDF I dont know.

Cheers

Re-inventing the wheel
 

It is amazing how well known standard procedures and recommendations get forgotten over the years. What happened to the Clean Aircraft policy and the final responsibility of the Capt?

Who would seriously rather take off while uncertain of clean wing conditions, than risk "worrying passengers"?

I have many times checked the upper surface with Pax on board, following a brief PA to explain what was going on. In my experience Pax are a lot more clever than some crews seem to think, especially if treated with courtesy and given information.

Looking through the cabin window will help you notice has the wing been de-iced, but it will not confirm to you is the ice totally cleared. A major hazard is clear ice that is very tough and just about impossible to see even from the cabin window. Someone needs to touch the surface with your hand to be absolutely certain.

Q: What would you say to your company if after exceeding your hold over time and after requesting another de-icing, you were told "we only pay for one de-icing"? ( The implication being you go now.)

It happened. :yuk:

One very rare and horrible morning, B737 LHR T4 about 9 years ago with freezing rain, I wanted to see the wing for myself. I got a trolley and climbed up so I was looking down at the Leading Edge. Absolutely clean I thought- I was looking from 18 inches away. I was surprised, I expected something. Just before climbing down, I stroked the bit of wing I had been looking at. Instead of aluminium, it felt rough and icy. A layer of clear ice I couldn't even see from 18 inches away, perfectly transparent! Astonishing. That very morning, an Australian 747 landed and skidded off the runway. Nobody de-iced- the airport was then closed- that freezing rain is deadly!

Always check for yourself. Take it seriously- be a pain in the arse. Get the G/E to bring you a trolley if you have any doubt or anyone persuades you de-icing is not required. They used to whinge if I opened the emergency exit to jump out and see for myself- on more than one occasion I made it clear either I had a feel for myself or someone else took it!

speak to the regulator

Rainboe

Do you remember that Canadian airfield that we used to transit on the way to Detroit? After several inches of snow had fallen on the wing during the transit, the ground engineer used to come to the flight deck and say "Don't worry cap'n, it'll blow off during the take-off". Of course we politely declined the opportunity to find out!

Airclues