Security at NY
 

Only in New York

I have to ask... What's the point of searching/screening the Crew before they get onboard the plane when they get onboard the plane and find a toolbelt (with knives, screwdrivers and all the stuff they take off you) lying on the galley section counter top?

I mean it's just sitting there with no-one around. It was picked up later but what is the point of screening the crew if the stuff is onboard already?

find a toolbelt (with knives, screwdrivers and all the stuff they take off you) lying on the galley section counter top?

What?!

Yes, the crew could find items onboard the aircraft that they could use against the safety of the crew, aircraft or pax but searching staff helps to deter would be terrorists that might use an airside / crew workers to smuggle items onboard.

hasta
 

You are missing the point completely; the maintenance staff seem to have done exactly what you are concerned about so the original question remains: whats the point in screening the crew for sharp objects ( and for G**** sake at JFK it's often a case of shoes off, belts off; watches off) when maintenance staff can legally carry knives and other sharp objects on board ?

I have worked at one of the major airports in New York recently, as I was there on a temporary basis I had to get a temp pass for the ramp. This was easy enough with the correct paperwork, but involved going through a full screening/security point with x-ray of bag etc, ust to get to the office to get the pass. Once holding the pass, back out the way I had just come, back into a public area, then down a nearby corridor and out onto the airside ramp, only security was a chap who was not really interested but was briefly checking passes, but no facilities at all for xray etc of my bag.
Now onto a mjor London airport, if an engineer walks through the terminal staff entrance to work airside, he cant take a metal fork with him to eat his dinner, (although they are available on the aircraft) but he can take his tools box with a knife in or a leatherman as it is 'tools of the trade'. Shows what a total joke airport security is.

TC, you are missing the point. The intention is to show loudly and publicly to passengers and the public that the politicians have responded to the security emergency to the satisfaction of themselves mainly by demonstrating that ALL, passengers, crew and airport staff will go through security, removing their shoes, belts, watches and tieclips, undoing their trousers for some peculiar reason, and be frisked, treated like dirt, but at all times, everybody will feel that the politicians have earned their incredible emoluments and spent OUR, the taxpayers money, on a good cause, to fight 'terrorism'. It has not escaped their attention that several of the 911 culprits were 'pilots' and could fly planes (to a degree). Therefore crew are equally at risk of being 'terrorists' as passengers. In many cases, the TSA appears to pay special attention to crews, particularly to the Captain. There is definitely an atmosphere of 'up there YOU maybe God, but down here, I rule the roost, and you are going to take your shoes off and undo your trousers in public for ME!'

Please close this thread. Security always seems to bring the stupidity out in people. You're each intitled to your view as is the next person, just keep it to yourself please.

Either put up with it and follow the rules or challenge / question them with the Airport Security Manager at the location that causes you concern. . . .

For christs sake hasta lueGO; what are you meant to do on an internet forum? The views expressed have not been unreasonable in any way and even if they were, why should people not express their opinions and asy you say, "keep thier views to themselves,"? The situation described with security is absurd. So much fuss is made but anyone with an ounce of grey matter could easily slip though the net, carring with them whatever they please.

A few weeks ago at Stansted I was met with an open door from the secure post-screening side of the terminal to the unsecure section. There was nothing to stop me from walking from one side to another without any sort of check. Yet, 10 minutes earlier I had had my bag screened, been frisked and taken my belt and shoes off to please the security (or lack thereof) staff.

Why search aircrew (especially pilots) so throughly when if they wanted to they could plough their jet into pretty much any building or mountain? Are there not rescue axes in the cockpit and armoured doors to prevent intervention from anyone in the cabin should a nut-case pilot decide to so either of the aforesaid actions?

There is a point where an element of trust has to be intrduced. Yes, search aircrew to check they are not smuggleing bags of heroin just like anyone else would be searched, but a pilot having a pen-knife is hardly a problem.

stansted
 

I've been working at Stansted for over a year on the security gates and scanners and never had to ask a pilot or f/o to remove a belt or shoes. the worst we do is ask to remove a jacket and cap. If of course you havn't the sense to take out your keys and small change you will get a little more investigation.
P.S. did you tell any one about the open door or are you happy to let security lapses happen?

I must be in a parallel universe. What do you want maintenance people to do? Fix the aircraft with a plastic tool-kit from Lego?
I know this comes as a shock to many people who apparently work in the aviation industry, but aircraft need maintaning and repairing.
maintenance staff have a responsibility to make sure they remove all tools when they leave, they, and those around them all have airside passes.
maintenance staff get searched just like everyone else, they just happen to be allowed to bring in tools through certain security gates in vehicles, i.e. not the passenger terminal security routes.
Why do air crew seem to take being searched as such a major hassle/insult? All other airline and airport staff have to do it far more frequently.

it has to cost money, and only then, they will change the procedures.

they can check me and scan me as often as they want. The more they are checking me, the sooner they will notice the stupidity of scanning pilots.

it is just money that counts.
wait til they let the ( financial ) controllers in.

Perhaps because of the futility? They are about to take control of the aeroplane, so what are they going to do with their Leatherman? Fight for control? I think not.

Other airport workers are NOT going to be getting airborne on the flight so their access needs to be monitored and searches carried out for good reason.

Remember, some of the 9/11 terrorists may have had some limited flying skills, but they were NOT operating aircrew. We have had background checks as operating crew, so if we are 'secure' enough to be issued with a pass and trusted to fly the aeroplane then searching us for offensive nail clippers is futile.

PP

Also, Has anyone noticed that TSA agents/guards try to get as close to you after exiting the scanner area ? [JFK & MIA] I get the uneasy feeling they are trying to smell alcohol.

Just as SLF watching the crew coming through the security checkpoints, can I ask this?

I believe it's quite easy to buy a current airline uniform or something that looks pretty close. How easy would it be to mock up something that looks pretty close to whatever passes you have to identify yourselves as crew? We all know the TSA screeners are never going to be forgery-detection experts. How easy would it be for an imposter to fool them into believing that they really are crew?

Tropical wave....your uneasy feeling is completely valid.....nothing pumps them up more than "catching the big one".
I suggest pouring part of a small bottle of cheap scotch on your epaulettes, and watch the resulting fireworks !! ;)

FLCH
Maybe you should just not drink the night before-
Problem solved

I think i'd rather have the TSA looking for the "big one"
than not looking for anything at all

Nitro, i am sure they are looking for good poeple to help them catch the " big one";)

It's now been 4 years since 9/11 and so is probably time to take a look at what is really necessary for airline security.

Can anybody explain why anything other than bomb sniffer dogs at the gate and locked cockpit doors are required? There's very little point smuggling a weapon on to a plane if you can't use it to take control.

Sensible answers please!

Pilot Pete,

Your rationale for not searching flight crew when you go airside is, I'm afraid, specious.

As soon as you have people allowed airside without a search then you also have people who could be coerced (someone could kidnap your family) into carrying naughty things through to hand to the bad guys.

It's has nothing at all to do with you and what you could do with your aircraft.

Sorry to point out the bleedin' obvious ... ;-)

Duncan

Ummmm, re-hash the same irritating Policies and procedures 1,265,749,521 times?

Did I win? :confused: