mytravel demoted captains.
 

i heard a rumour that mytravel have demoted several of their capts for the coming season.however rather than repromote them for the coming season , they have decided to replace their positions with direct entry summer contract canadian captains. if this is true surely balpa must step in and stop this outrage.:yuk:

I understand BALPA are onto this and discussing with company management.

What you haven't mentioned is that some of your "downgraded" Captains have been flying as Captains here in Canada since October. I guess that is different though! The exchange of Pilots between our organizations is mutually beneficial. This topic has been beat to death.

Quit your whinging.:ugh:

....typical canadian response. You have a pathetic domestic industry, and you have been responsible for a worldwide downgrade of pilot conditions. enough said.

Tornado,

Could you explain to me how we in Canada, have caused a worldwide downgrade in working conditions. I would love to hear your rational behind that statement.

While you are at it could you explain why it is wrong for Canadians to fly in the UK? Your chaps don't seem to mind flying over here.

Regards,

When "The Brits" come to op' on contracts e.g. Skyservice they have to sit exams because 'Transport Canada' place severe restrictions on the ability of 'G' reg aircraft to operate there so our guys have to do Canadian licensing examinations.

When "The Canucks" come to op' over here, they have to sit no such exams, in fact all cabin crew have to "do a Canadian course" because they are flying 'C' reg aircraft within the EU. That is how I understand it and I may be wrong. It isn't anyones fault on an individual or company level. It's a Governmental and Legislative f**k up. And it stinks!

The winners on both sides are the companies and their managers with their bonuses. The losers all round are pilots seeking permanent contracts and good pilots waiting for their commands.

:ok:

Pontious,

That used to be true, however this year, the Colonials are sitting the same amount of exams to validate a UK ATPL as our chaps had to sit to fly there. Our ground instructors and TRE's are about to launch for a Canadian vacation soon !

It seems to be the case that those Canadians coming to MYT will sit CAA exams to fly G reg a/c. However, other UK airlines are not making the visitors do this. But then they will continue to fly C reg a/c. It would also seem that pilot managers have visited Canada to persuade SkyService crews that they will be welcomed by us after the recent redundancy program. No surprise then that we will also find ourselves joined by contractors, given false hopes of work after the summer season!

The issue of redundancy & redeployment remain. As can be seen from the BALPA CC ballot. To make any difference here a consensus of opinion must be agreed.

So on the next occassion you are asked to work beyond the scheduling agreement or for a day off/early payment, consider the message you are sending the management of MYT.

As for the BALPA CC, why do we continue to allow Captains to fly in the right seat whilst redeployed Captains have yet to be moved back across the centre pedestal.

Without solidarity among us there is no hope for any negotiation.

Quote: "What you haven't mentioned is that some of your "downgraded" Captains have been flying as Captains here in Canada since October. I guess that is different though! "


Yes, but have they been flying with Canadian Captains who have been demoted/redeployed/made redundant and re-employed...... and put in the RHS? This is the rub.

How would you feel if you were at your original base, now in the RHS with the accompanying salary reduction, and the guy in the left seat doing "your job" is from a different country on a temporary contract?

My understanding is that if your're made redundant then your post no longer exists - so why import someone else to do it?

Morally bankrupt?

From purely a personal point of view - C reg aircraft, you fly to and from Canada, ONLY! Not from Europe to Europe - I didn't realise we had granted 5th freedom rights to every other bugger in the world. I know we have a crap government who allow non-EU members to reside in this country (short term contracts included), I wish we didn't, but European work = European Aircraft = European pilots. This also means Bye-bye to the multitude of non-EU nations working for the likes of Ryannair. And good riddance - we have enough people, with and without experience looking for jobs. Allowing "foreigners" in makes their life more more difficult than it needs to be. It also undermines my own CC's bargaining power and ultimately, my T's & C's.

Dear Piltdown


......good job we did'nt have your attitude during WW 2....when the Canadians,OZ,NZ etc.etc...came over and did'nt make it back.

And yes, I am a Brit.

Pilots ego,s and the bttom line
 

As a Canadian Pilot living in the Uk I would have to say that there is pro,s and con,s to both regulatory regimes.Beaurcratic arrogance,national pride oh let us forget ICAO.As a owner of an airline I,ll play you pilots to the best advantage of my bottom line.Most of you lust to fly that you could be comparable to a whore for hire on a sunday night especially canadians.Canadian domestic industry well the real question is what industry?
I was advised numerous times to stay away from the industry it will leave you broke and heartroken.True lucky I got out same in Britian egomaniacs,rich kids and idiots all wanting to reply speedbird bla,bla,bla.
On a positive note it,s a young ignorant mans game and I would advise any youngster to associate with you souless,superficial *******.

Zorx,

Would you like to edit /punctuate your post so that it makes some sense to this "superficial ******"? :hmm:

First off, thanks for the intelligent replies, well except for one....zorx, what planet are you from?

To answer you A4, We DO have several Captains (now downgraded) sitting in the right seat with your Captains. There is no difference at all. Except that they have been there for three years. How long have your guys been demoted?

Right or wrong, it is our companies that are doing this. We are not asking for this work. Why you folks continue to slag our Pilots is beyond me.

Regards,

Zorx. Son, please tell me that you don't represent the educational level of the average Canadian..? That has to be one of the most poorly constructed posts I have ever had the amusing displeasure to read. I am still not sure just what you were actually trying to say....

Tornado Ali, check my own profile and you will understand why some of us may have poorly constructed posts.
:suspect:

Sorry, back to the threat now!

Just checked Zorx profile and still left wondering??

Some people can't punctuate because English is not their first language.
Some can't punctuate because they don't know how to.
Some can't punctuate because they can't be @rsed.

Anyway, to the thread. Before I start I am not a MYT manager, just looking at it from another perspective.

MYT is operating in a global market with global economies. The aircraft are viewed as a global asset, when the C-reg (or Scandinavian) aircraft are quiet they come to the UK to operate during the busy summer season. Vice versa, when the UK aircraft are quiet they go to Canada and Scandinavia to operate during their busy period. The alternative to this would be to leave aircraft sitting around during the quieter periods, reducing the crew requirement. Pilots, and particularly captains, are an expensive resource to have sitting around doing nothing, so companies would be forced to look into alternatives such as summer only contracts. The appeal of such contracts to pilots is fairly limited, most people want to be on full time contracts in order to secure mortgages, etc. Therefore it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to secure your required peak numbers leading to crew shortages at the very times that you need them.
An ideal situation would be to have only the aircraft and crew that you need for your winter programme and then supplement these with additional wet leases for your summer work. MYT aren't in this position as their available aircraft and crew capacity exceeds their winter requirement hence the flip flop between UK and Canada. It isn't an ideal situation but the alternative would be further reduction in aircraft and crew to match only the winter numbers, and then entering into the risky seasonal wet lease business.
The other alternative would be summer seasonal promotions for the redeployed skippers, bringing in agency or seasonal F/O's to backfill. But who realistically wants to be a summer captain / winter F/O?

Better this I would have thought than an all year FO.:\

We have already been advised that the group fleet size will reduce even further. If I remember correctly SkyService is not part of the group. Why would the Scandinavian operation be scaled back when it is performing so well? That would seem to leave MYT. Shall we hazard a guess at 16 a/c.

In which case we can expect further redundancies & even more demotions.

Flex33
Is that in addition to the departure of the Boeing aircraft?

Tornado

Well, that would answer that question. British soccer skinhead hooligans can use the computer.

Canada has more commercial pilots per capita than just about any other country in the world. Thus you have a ready supply of willing, highly skilled and very motivated pilots will to give their left nut (and $30k) to work on a jet. With 3000 hours I understand that you are considered a high time pilot in your neck of the woods. Around here you are considered a green horn, worthy of maybe a Navajo or if lucky a PC12. For this reason, pilots with 8000 hours plus who are still driving B1900D around the north sometimes go off shore and take positions from persons such as yourself. Is this why you are so anti Canadian? When I fly around the north, I hear different accents all day from pilots who are working here, that are citizens of another country. But I don’t get offended by this. It’s just another person trying to do the best they can for their family. This is maybe the reason why my country has a reputation for tolerance and acceptance, of which I am proud to be a part.

And just to get your goat, I have submitted my application to BA earlier.



:}

You really do read a load of twaddle on this board don't you? And from supposedly "educated" individuals from over the water.

Dash 8, 1200+TT, West Canada.

I'm looking forward to a nice shiny jet job in the UK (UK passport through parents) - pointers appreciated chaps!

And I prefer the 757...

There is / was only 1 Mytravel demoted Captain flying in Canada for Skyservice.

That Captain was given the chance to go to Canada and keep his command only due to operational requirements ( Mytravel have pi**ed off so many of their pilots they did not have enough volunteers to go!).

You can't blame the Captain concerned, he had the chance to keep his command for a further 6 months rather than be demoted to First Officer if he had stayed in the UK.

Upon return to the UK the Captain Concerned will be demoted to First Officer.

Skyservice Crews come to the UK each summer based on a reciprocal arrangement that sees Mytravel crews go to Canada for the winter.

SkyService Crews coming to fly in the UK this summer are not doing the full UK ATPL exams as the are being issued a Foreign Licence Validation having completed a CAA Air law exam.

Mytravel crews have had to do the full Canadian ATPL exams and now have Canadian ATPL licences - not Foreign Licence Validations.

This reciprocal agreement has been fine in the past, however it is now unacceptable that Canadian Skyservice Captains will be flying in the UK this year ,when the are still Mytravel Captains who have been forcefully demoted to First Officers .

This is because of the penny pinching Mytravel Management who quite obviously don't give a toss about their pilot work force and are more concerned about their own positions and Bonuses.

After all, it was the total mismanagement of Mytravel that saw these Captains demoted and countless First Officers made redundant as the Company tittered on the verge of bankruptcy, yet the directors who put the company in this position walked away with Millions £ in payoffs - outrageous!

The Mytravel Demoted Captains should all be re-promoted before ANY Canadian Skyservice Captain flies for Mytravel.

If this is does not happen a precedent could be set that will see now more new commands at Mytravel as the company will just take on Contract Pilot Captains when it needs them rather than promote any more First Officers.

Mytravel Management would have all the demoted Captains Flying as First Officers in the UK if it were not for BALPA'S intervention.

Bottom line is what would you rather be a demoted Captain with a job or a FO looking for one?

Engineer,
you missed the point!
considering that now Mytravel is no longer on the verge of bankruptcy (as it is now owned by the banks) the demoted Captians should be re-promoted before contract pilots are taken on.
Mytravel should look after its own employees first.

Word on the street is that the demoted captains will be given their commands back, but only temporarily (til the end of October). Then, who knows what will happen. Another little whisper doing the rounds (keep it to yourselves please!), is that there may be further cuts in the fleet size.

I think you will find the cut in fleet size are the 2 75's off in Nov ! well thats till the next change of plan !

North of somewhere, and co, I very much resent the assertion that this post is "anti Canadian". We in the UK have a great deal of time for the Canadians.

You speak of tolerance. So you're saying you would be happy to see a Canadian airline demote or lay off pilots to replace them with Brits on contract? In your dreams. You know very well that such a situation would emphatically NOT be tolerated in Canada.

The answer , as has been suggested, is for the demoted MYT Captains to keep their command over the summer, then the difficulty of a Canadian Captain flying with a demoted pilot would be avoided : and maybe then there would be another reason for them to keep their commands over the Hadj period and then.....
MYT need the Canadians this summer and we, the English, needed them at least twice in the last century.
On a personal level , they will surely receive a big welcome.

MYT
 

Clinging to the wreckage:
I watch with sheer horror at what is happening to an airline where I spent over 11 years in the left seat boeing -bus all types. There is an urgent need to change the Dfo who has done so much damage to relations with the pilot workforce when there was always another way. He is simply following his agenda as is the brief. This is happening all over the industry from Cathay to States airlines. There has never been a better reason for a young pilot to seriously consider retraining for another career and limit the damage further. If you think it is going to be better at the national carrier or another charter org you would be wrong. I lay the blame for this at our own door. We should have become a highly organised and Chartered profession decades ago as has benefited the other professions. It is now far to late. Think - family first and get out to a fresh start. Good luck to all.
Big hugs..... Koi

Tornado Ali:

I am curious to know why you are so bitter and twisted, as well as waiting for a response to the other legitimate questions posed of you by other members of this site.

While you're at it, as an aside, is English your first language ?

(In case anyone wondered, I have both JAA and current Canadian ATPL privileges, and the only cheapening of this line of work comes from fellows such as the Tornado, with his very large bag of "wind", and accompanying smattering of dubious "sound bites"....)
:mad:

Agreed, backof thedrag -although the problem isn't that it's a "Canadian" Captain. Nationality isn't the issue. Most workers in almost every part of the world would object to seeing fellow professionals laid off or demoted when there is manifestly a need for their services.

I do not think our Canadian colleagues have anything to worry about when they come over to the UK; as usual, they will be treated with the respect they deserve and, as usual, they will undoubtedly make the effort to fit in wherever they are. It's a management issue, and it won't affect the buying of beers.

What the company does have to worry about is the second exodus. All of the Boeing dudes will be cross-trained to the Dark Side very shortly, and surprise, surprise... it turns out to be a very nice aircraft indeed. Could use some RB211s, sure.... :D

No bond, 500 hours on type, where are all the FOs going to go, now there is no prospect of command ? Does it matter ? Why have so many senior captains and FOs left to join other companies on a lower package ?

A shame - we have (imho) an excellent scheduling agreement, a good salary package but there are no career prospects and the little bits of silliness from management - "this is aviation, boy.... I don't care if your wife is giving birth today, you will do the Palma", personally, just shove me just over the fence to leave when I've done my time on the bus.