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-   -   mytravel demoted captains. (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/170042-mytravel-demoted-captains.html)

Too Few Stripes 7th Apr 2005 09:55

mytravel demoted captains.
i heard a rumour that mytravel have demoted several of their capts for the coming season.however rather than repromote them for the coming season , they have decided to replace their positions with direct entry summer contract canadian captains. if this is true surely balpa must step in and stop this outrage.:yuk:

av8er 7th Apr 2005 13:37

I understand BALPA are onto this and discussing with company management.

Airbus_rookie 7th Apr 2005 22:00

What you haven't mentioned is that some of your "downgraded" Captains have been flying as Captains here in Canada since October. I guess that is different though! The exchange of Pilots between our organizations is mutually beneficial. This topic has been beat to death.

Quit your whinging.:ugh:

Tornado Ali 7th Apr 2005 23:10

....typical canadian response. You have a pathetic domestic industry, and you have been responsible for a worldwide downgrade of pilot conditions. enough said.

Airbus_rookie 8th Apr 2005 01:57


Could you explain to me how we in Canada, have caused a worldwide downgrade in working conditions. I would love to hear your rational behind that statement.

While you are at it could you explain why it is wrong for Canadians to fly in the UK? Your chaps don't seem to mind flying over here.


Pontious 8th Apr 2005 06:16

When "The Brits" come to op' on contracts e.g. Skyservice they have to sit exams because 'Transport Canada' place severe restrictions on the ability of 'G' reg aircraft to operate there so our guys have to do Canadian licensing examinations.

When "The Canucks" come to op' over here, they have to sit no such exams, in fact all cabin crew have to "do a Canadian course" because they are flying 'C' reg aircraft within the EU. That is how I understand it and I may be wrong. It isn't anyones fault on an individual or company level. It's a Governmental and Legislative f**k up. And it stinks!

The winners on both sides are the companies and their managers with their bonuses. The losers all round are pilots seeking permanent contracts and good pilots waiting for their commands.


javelin 8th Apr 2005 10:31


That used to be true, however this year, the Colonials are sitting the same amount of exams to validate a UK ATPL as our chaps had to sit to fly there. Our ground instructors and TRE's are about to launch for a Canadian vacation soon !

Flex33 8th Apr 2005 12:25

It seems to be the case that those Canadians coming to MYT will sit CAA exams to fly G reg a/c. However, other UK airlines are not making the visitors do this. But then they will continue to fly C reg a/c. It would also seem that pilot managers have visited Canada to persuade SkyService crews that they will be welcomed by us after the recent redundancy program. No surprise then that we will also find ourselves joined by contractors, given false hopes of work after the summer season!

The issue of redundancy & redeployment remain. As can be seen from the BALPA CC ballot. To make any difference here a consensus of opinion must be agreed.

So on the next occassion you are asked to work beyond the scheduling agreement or for a day off/early payment, consider the message you are sending the management of MYT.

As for the BALPA CC, why do we continue to allow Captains to fly in the right seat whilst redeployed Captains have yet to be moved back across the centre pedestal.

Without solidarity among us there is no hope for any negotiation.

A4 8th Apr 2005 19:22

Quote: "What you haven't mentioned is that some of your "downgraded" Captains have been flying as Captains here in Canada since October. I guess that is different though! "

Yes, but have they been flying with Canadian Captains who have been demoted/redeployed/made redundant and re-employed...... and put in the RHS? This is the rub.

How would you feel if you were at your original base, now in the RHS with the accompanying salary reduction, and the guy in the left seat doing "your job" is from a different country on a temporary contract?

My understanding is that if your're made redundant then your post no longer exists - so why import someone else to do it?

Morally bankrupt?

Piltdown Man 8th Apr 2005 20:27

From purely a personal point of view - C reg aircraft, you fly to and from Canada, ONLY! Not from Europe to Europe - I didn't realise we had granted 5th freedom rights to every other bugger in the world. I know we have a crap government who allow non-EU members to reside in this country (short term contracts included), I wish we didn't, but European work = European Aircraft = European pilots. This also means Bye-bye to the multitude of non-EU nations working for the likes of Ryannair. And good riddance - we have enough people, with and without experience looking for jobs. Allowing "foreigners" in makes their life more more difficult than it needs to be. It also undermines my own CC's bargaining power and ultimately, my T's & C's.

waco 8th Apr 2005 21:04

Dear Piltdown

......good job we did'nt have your attitude during WW 2....when the Canadians,OZ,NZ etc.etc...came over and did'nt make it back.

And yes, I am a Brit.

zorx 8th Apr 2005 22:08

Pilots ego,s and the bttom line
As a Canadian Pilot living in the Uk I would have to say that there is pro,s and con,s to both regulatory regimes.Beaurcratic arrogance,national pride oh let us forget ICAO.As a owner of an airline I,ll play you pilots to the best advantage of my bottom line.Most of you lust to fly that you could be comparable to a whore for hire on a sunday night especially canadians.Canadian domestic industry well the real question is what industry?
I was advised numerous times to stay away from the industry it will leave you broke and heartroken.True lucky I got out same in Britian egomaniacs,rich kids and idiots all wanting to reply speedbird bla,bla,bla.
On a positive note it,s a young ignorant mans game and I would advise any youngster to associate with you souless,superficial *******.

A4 8th Apr 2005 22:28


Would you like to edit /punctuate your post so that it makes some sense to this "superficial ******"? :hmm:

Airbus_rookie 9th Apr 2005 01:33

First off, thanks for the intelligent replies, well except for one....zorx, what planet are you from?

To answer you A4, We DO have several Captains (now downgraded) sitting in the right seat with your Captains. There is no difference at all. Except that they have been there for three years. How long have your guys been demoted?

Right or wrong, it is our companies that are doing this. We are not asking for this work. Why you folks continue to slag our Pilots is beyond me.


Tornado Ali 9th Apr 2005 01:34

Zorx. Son, please tell me that you don't represent the educational level of the average Canadian..? That has to be one of the most poorly constructed posts I have ever had the amusing displeasure to read. I am still not sure just what you were actually trying to say....

ehwatezedoing 9th Apr 2005 03:22

Tornado Ali, check my own profile and you will understand why some of us may have poorly constructed posts.

Sorry, back to the threat now!

As I See It 9th Apr 2005 11:04

Just checked Zorx profile and still left wondering??

Big Tudor 9th Apr 2005 13:25

Some people can't punctuate because English is not their first language.
Some can't punctuate because they don't know how to.
Some can't punctuate because they can't be @rsed.

Anyway, to the thread. Before I start I am not a MYT manager, just looking at it from another perspective.

MYT is operating in a global market with global economies. The aircraft are viewed as a global asset, when the C-reg (or Scandinavian) aircraft are quiet they come to the UK to operate during the busy summer season. Vice versa, when the UK aircraft are quiet they go to Canada and Scandinavia to operate during their busy period. The alternative to this would be to leave aircraft sitting around during the quieter periods, reducing the crew requirement. Pilots, and particularly captains, are an expensive resource to have sitting around doing nothing, so companies would be forced to look into alternatives such as summer only contracts. The appeal of such contracts to pilots is fairly limited, most people want to be on full time contracts in order to secure mortgages, etc. Therefore it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to secure your required peak numbers leading to crew shortages at the very times that you need them.
An ideal situation would be to have only the aircraft and crew that you need for your winter programme and then supplement these with additional wet leases for your summer work. MYT aren't in this position as their available aircraft and crew capacity exceeds their winter requirement hence the flip flop between UK and Canada. It isn't an ideal situation but the alternative would be further reduction in aircraft and crew to match only the winter numbers, and then entering into the risky seasonal wet lease business.
The other alternative would be summer seasonal promotions for the redeployed skippers, bringing in agency or seasonal F/O's to backfill. But who realistically wants to be a summer captain / winter F/O?

foxmoth 9th Apr 2005 14:06

But who realistically wants to be a summer captain / winter F/O?
Better this I would have thought than an all year FO.:\

Flex33 10th Apr 2005 12:28

We have already been advised that the group fleet size will reduce even further. If I remember correctly SkyService is not part of the group. Why would the Scandinavian operation be scaled back when it is performing so well? That would seem to leave MYT. Shall we hazard a guess at 16 a/c.

In which case we can expect further redundancies & even more demotions.

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