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Women tend to be more motivated, dedicated and professional in my opinion. As for not being as able mathematically and technically - well I think that is not true.
If there is an increasing number of females being employed, and I think in many UK airlines this is the case then I think this is due to the above factors rather than any positive discrimination. As for flying with them, in my company those I have flown with are generally a joy to share a day with - competent, relaxed, confident and personable. Long may it continue. |
I was having a chat with my aunt about this - she's now in her 70's, and was a surgeon and GP - going to med school in about 1946.
She encountered a lot of raised eyebrows - came from a working class family as well, and lots of people thought then that female doctors would never have the trust of patients, even female ones! They told her she'd never be able to raise a family (wrong, 2 daughters), or have time to keep home and husband, wrong. A lot of male doctors were certain that the hours, stress etc. were beyond women... Wake up lads - the cockpit is no longer a male preserve - and by the way - 65% of med students in the UK are..........women! |
Now please don't shoot the messenger, but does this sound familiar ?
Women docs 'weakening' medicine. A top female doctor has warned the medical profession's influence could be damaged by the number of women choosing to be medics. Women doctors are expected to outnumber men within a decade. But Professor Carol Black, president of the Royal College of Physicians, told the Independent that could affect how the medical profession was seen. She said she believed female-dominated professions such as teaching no longer saw themselves as "powerful". She added: "We are feminising medicine. It has been a profession dominated by white males. What are we going to have to do to ensure it retains its influence? "Years ago, teaching was a male-dominated profession - and look what happened to teaching. I don't think they feel they are a powerful profession any more. Look at nursing, too." Professor Black added: "In Russia, medicine is an almost entirely female profession. "They are paid less and they are almost ignored by government. They have lost influence as a body that had competency, skills and a professional ethic. "They have become just another part of the workforce. It is a case of downgrading professionalism." Work-life balance Professor Black added: "What worries me is who is going to be the professor of cardiology in the future? Where are we going to find the leaders of British medicine in 20 years' time?" She added women were unlikely to take top jobs, such as the dean of a medical school, because of the difficulties combining them with family life. Professor Black warned many women avoided more "demanding" areas such as cardiology. She said medicine had to face up to the problem and find ways of helping women doctors balance work and family. Professor Black told BBC News Online: "I think it's a good thing that women are choosing the medical profession, but the problem is how to make it possible for them to be really effective. "At the moment, women aren't going into specialties that are the more demanding. So we need to look at how those specialties are practised." Flexible working Professor Black warned that, in order for the medical profession's to retain its status, senior doctors needed to serve on government committees and regulatory bodies. She said such as late night meetings would simply not be possible for women with children, unless they were given extra support with childcare and flexible hours. "I think most women, although not all, want the opportunity to have a family. "That may mean they won't perhaps be able to be as flexible as men who don't in a post." She said she was pleased she was able to highlight the problem because of her position. "It's something that's very difficult for a man to say." Dr Maureen Baker, honorary secretary of the Royal College of GPs, said it was "perfectly reasonable" to expect the status of any profession to be upheld by its workforce. "Furthermore, if a higher ratio of men or women working within a profession is deemed to be reducing its status then there is a problem with the very way society views the abilities of the sexes," she said. 'Smaller pool' A spokeswoman for the British Medical Association said: "We would not want to see a return to the old quota system of admitting women to medical school - the BMA believes in equality of access and opportunity. "However we agree with Professor Black that there is an under-representation of women at the most senior levels of medicine and medico-politics and we would like to see this changed." And John Bangs of the National Union of Teachers said: "I would by no means agree that teaching views itself as a less powerful profession, and I find that a very concerning view." He added: "If you have an all female profession, whether it be medicine or teaching, it means that the pool from which you're selecting those people is smaller than it should be." |
What is this with the banal utterings of those inadequately-testiculated old dinosaurs who have yet to comprehend that female pilots are every bit as good as male pilots?
Years ago, during a Spanish ATC strike, I only got home on time because the Dan Air captain kicked butt, put on extra fuel and flew her 707 all the way home at FL170 from Mahon to Gatwick! She had a 'can-b£oody-do' attitude, all right! I trained a fair few pilots in the military; one of our best was a young lady who came from a generation of pilots - on her first sim trip I spotted a degree of application, skill and determination which wasn't exhibited by her male colleagues. "She'll be the first female captain on this fleet" thought I after watching her fly the sim for 5 minutes. And so she became! I had the very great pleasure of acting as her co-piglet when she retired the last ever Standard VC10 to its graveyard many years later. Fittingly, her grandfather had brought the a/c into BOAC service quite a few years earlier! Stop bitching about female pilots - in general they're very good indeed. As should only be expected! |
Thank you Beags. I second that. When I see the effort certain lady pilots put into their job I am ashamed of the casual way in which I used to shamble around the world. I can only hope I would have grown out of it.
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Female pilots - anywhere?
Awww - c'mon for heavens sake, all ya old and young dinosaurs!!!
Females have long ago proven that they can handle big irons or any powered flying vehicles! Already in the 20'ies they were hailed for their brave aviation enterprises. During WWII gals competently ferried fighters and bombers to sites where "real men" were allowed to take over and fly the crates into oblivion and death. After the war the "aviatrixes" were confined to the kitchen. Yecchhh. Problem is that today's big-ego (?) macho-men (?) still have trouble letting gals into "their" territory! It is still "a man's world", even anno 2000+. Wake up!!! Because (!) airline bean-counters have found that any female unfortunately is endowed with nature's given ability to produce offspring (whether they want to or not). Meaning that they could be out of line production while doing their "duty". Alas, some airlines then find it too costly to replace them during this period, as well as abstaining from the cost of putting them through recurrent training later. Money talks? Do believe women pilots are quite as competent as their male "hot-shot" counterparts. With no testosterone they don't waste time and energy fistfighting in bars or wrecking cars/planes to prove they're better than "the next guy/gal". In a dogfight they win because of their ability to calmly assess the situation. The following link goes to prove that even the USAF have found females usable: http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedS...C135ladies.htm Isn't this nice reading? Even 30 years ago there was an all-female crew on an American B-727 where the captain and the flight-engineer were mother and daughter. (I saved the clip.) Just the other day I watched a TV programme with an old captain flying the line with his daughter co-pilot whom he had taught to fly. Danny dear, you're such a nice and sensible man!!! Thanks for your input above. GET REAL, GUYS!!!!! |
Nardi Riviera, you should probably double check that clip.
I started with AA in 1985 and remember the first all female 727 crew some time after that (my guess would be 1987), and there was no mother - daughter combo. |
OK, I got into this thread late, all I can tell you is that I am a chief –pilot of a corporate operation and the first pilot I hired was a, GASP, female!
Didn’t hire her because she was a ‘female’, I hired her because she was a damn good pilot. End of subject! |
Must be great to be the chief pilot, you get to say things like
"End Of Subject". Question is when will the female pilots out there get to say it? |
I just had to come in on this one.
Over the years I have had the pleasure of teaching an almost equal gender split of students at PPL level, and now fly the line with a small but excellent group of female first officers. They have worked hard to get the positions they now hold, and made some tremendous personal sacrifices. On hours and ability alone, most of them should now be in the left seat .. however the glass ceiling is still there and being reinforced by some of the attitudes voiced earlier in this thread. Well said Danny : It's about time attitudes changed... at all levels |
You want ladies in macho jobs? The Tall Ships Youth Trust (previously known as the Sail Training Association) has two brigs of over 600 tonnes displacement; 200ft two masted square riggers - 10 square sails and 8 fore & aft.
Their bosuns are female. For the landlubbers; the bosun runs deck maintenance, rigging stores, does a bit of instructing and leads the sea shanty singing by the voyage crew manning the yards, reporting to the 1st mate. |
Sexism is part of human nature.Like a lot of other isms,its here to stay unfortunately.Remember that its the flying public that often reinforce the myth that flying is a mans world.And thats both men and women.I have actually witnessed female passengers deplane because the skipper was female...
Anyone who thinks women cant make it as pilots,just tell them two words...Amelia Earhart. |
Just to clear up any misunderstanding...my comments about Ryanair not hiring females for financial reasons were not meant to be taken to suggest I don't think female pilots are any good.
Not at all. But the fact remains...they have potentially higher specific costs of employment due to their tendancy to reproduce at will. As to female/male pilot ability. I've seen both sides of this. I've flown with female pilots who were outstanding. I've also flown with female pilots who were useless...ditto for males. However, I have on more than one occasion (alright, twice) personally witnessed the abuse of feminine wiles to get ahead. In the first case a female new-joiner was told she would be streamed onto a turbo-prop fleet instead of the jet type she hoped for (not as a result of any ability issues...just luck of the draw). She went to the Chief Pilot and bawled her eyes out to him. He wimped out and took a young guy off the jet slot and gave it to her. Later, when the young man objected - he was fired for questioning the Chief Pilots motives! In the other case I actually saw a female pilot burst into tears during a difficult sim check that wasn't going well for her. The session was stopped so she could compose herself, and when it restarted - everything was laid on a plate to get her through. A male pilot in the same situation would either have had to sort himself out or fail the check. I believe this kind of thing does go on, like it or not. |
A great reply to Maxalt's post above is just waiting to be given but those of you whom are not scholars of Hiberno English might not get it so it is best we leave it go for now. Shame, really. Very funny, though! ;)
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I saw this post and it made me wonder something else.
Whilst I appreciate that male pilot/female pilot makes no difference in the general scheme of things it made me wonder about the recruitment process. There is a drive now to get more women into the airline industry- great I say, it's fact that they generally don't suffer the same bravado issues as blokes and studies have shown they are less likely to "take the gamble" probably a good thing on the flight deck but where does this leave the recruitment process of 2 equal candidates one a female and one a male ? What springs to mind here (though miles apart) is in "affirmative action" in Africa, where the jobs are going to blacks before whites,(no problem with that - but I'm told even if the white's a far better candidate). Do you think there is a chance this could happen in said recruitment question as the airlines drive for more female pilots - in that it'd look better for them to be recruiting more females - or does it just not happen !! All hypothetical and I'm not sexist or racist just thinking out loud. FS :ok: p.s. th earlier posts about crying re jet/prop and sim checks is disgusting - I hope the pilot that got sacked took them to the cleaners. |
They also forgot the punchline. The casualty was then arrested for theft of the boat.
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maxalt, I cannot believe that those events happened. The vast majority of female pilots would not dream of using something like that. BUT...and its a big but... you are actually putting down men in your post, as you are inferring that they would actually go outside of CAA guidelines to get a female through a sim check, and go outside of employment guidelines to promote a woman ahead of a man.
If this is the case, then perhaps the tactics of men who are in a position of "power" should be examined more thoroughly. As for the maternity issue, well, in the USA a female pilot took her employer to court, because she wanted to work during pregnancy (after the first 3 months) and wasn't allowed to. I believe that women pilots in America are now allowed to fly whilst pregnant provided they have consent from their Doctor. However, let's take worse case scenario. I believe the average number of children per women is now less than 2. So lets say, worse case, the pilot has 2 children. I would guess that it takes at least a month to confirm that a woman is actually pregnant. During that month the woman flies. The woman is then grounded for 2 months due to the high radiation affecting the development of the child. After that she is medically fit and could fly an aircraft if the regulations allow. Obviously closer to the actual birth she will be off for a couple of months. Lets say worst case, she is off for 1 year per child. That is only 2 years in a career of 30 or 40 years. No doubt the low cost carriers could only pay statutory maternity leave if they so desired. Now I know for a fact that an airline can cope with at least 20 less pilots - the airline I work for is not a low cost carrier but operates with less crews per aircraft than LCCs. In my airline pregnant pilots are assigned other duties, on the ground, so they are doing a job that the company would have to pay for. So its most likely to be around 8 months off, doing a different job, with maybe a pay difference of £20k per year. So we are talking maybe £13k for one child, £26k for two. My company spent £60k on days off payments this year, because it couldn't roster sufficient pilots to cover for sickness, delays, etc. Not to mention the fact that we have a number of (male) pilots off sick with other health issues. So is this really such a big issue???? And if men don't agree with women working as pilots then taking maternity leave, I take it they are happy with their own wives never having children, or if they do, giving up their jobs? |
maxalt, I cannot believe that those events happened. The vast majority of female pilots would not dream of using something like that. True nonetheless. I really don't have this good an imagination. Just to rub salt into it, the female concerned took her jet type rating and buggered orf after serving about a year. She's using it to fly with another employer in the UK now. Apparently that was why she was so upset at being streamed onto the turbo prop...she was already plotting her escape and needed the jet rating to do it. The individuals concerned may well be reading this and no doubt recognise themselves. Perhaps she'd like to comment? BUT...and its a big but... you are actually putting down men in your post, as you are inferring that they would actually go outside of CAA guidelines to get a female through a sim check, and go outside of employment guidelines to promote a woman ahead of a man. Some men are so easily manipulated by a womans tears it just ain't funny. Me? - I'd fail anyone on the spot for crying in the Sim. They'd be off to the shrink immediately too. But thats just me...I'm fair and even handed by nature. If this is the case, then perhaps the tactics of men who are in a position of "power" should be examined more thoroughly. As to the details of pregnancy legislation, you appear to know little about it. Under the old rules it was allowed for a pregnant pilot to fly during the second trimester. When JAR came in that was stopped altogether. So no point sueing your long-sufferring employer...its the LAW. Also, I've yet to meet a female pilot who actually WANTED to fly while pregnant! Usually the pregnancy was timed to fall in Peak Season...so she had a nice rest while the rest of us worked our bollix off (how do you like THAT hiberno english Tom The Tenor)? And after all...if I was capable of choosing when to have a 9 month holiday on a whim...I'd pick my dates carefully too. Lets not delude ourselves...its human nature. As a matter of additional interest, its my experience that when a lady pilot decides to have a baby, she often decides...what the hell...lets have two and get it over with. The result is she's off the roster for a year and a half. Unless she can arrange a set of twins? And off course...the company has to pay her...and she is under no obligation to work in another position...I've never known them to do so, and if they were forced...well, I imagine the sudden onset of a bout of premature labour symptoms would scare off most Chief Pilots. Jeez...I'm so un-PC! How dare I...I could get my eyes scratched out if I was identified! And if men don't agree with women working as pilots then taking maternity leave, I take it they are happy with their own wives never having children, or if they do, giving up their jobs? Seems basically unjust to me. Never actually been in that situation, but I've seen it numerous times. Not sure what I'd do about it...perhaps we could open a new thread and kick it around there? |
Thank ya all for some veeery interesting reading!!!
Airbus Girl – nice to have some facts in this thread, for a change...
Have noted that during the last decade the gender gap in aviation has closed somewhat, which is really encouraging. Especially the younger generation men are getting more comfortable about sharing their work environment with women. Guess that as the number of female pilots is increasing, there will be all kinds present: Also the very few who habitually resort to tears for "problem-solving". Why, in another 20 yrs one doing that would be told brusquely to pull herself together and continue, or better yet may have learned this by ample exposure to the male environment. Guys responding to tears in the old-fashioned way also show that they have a few miles to go... Evolution takes time, dear gentlemen. Stay tuned. In the earlier ages (60-70'ies) maybe the conduct of female pilots had to be strictly professional in order to get them somewhere – or maybe other types of women were attracted to flying than today's (actual interest in aviation, not just "another job"). Believe that most of us more easily notice/remember a gal goofing on a sim-check etc than when a guy does, because they are few so they draw attention. I remember the days when men had all kinds of hilarious reasons for women not being suitable for flying positions. (One old airline captain assured me that the only skirt he'd ever see in his cockpit would be the stew serving them coffee…) Then, after gals had been around for a while and I reminded the guys of their previous statements, those very ones had gotten used to the phenomenon and could no longer see "the problem". Nice. Men are somewhat primitive beings. I do enjoy/envy that – as expressed in old PC lingo: WYSIWYG. Wish more women were able to adopt some of that attitude, thus simplify their acts a wee bit for the benefit of all. MOST women could use some more ambition plus sharper elbows, and tone down their nurturing instinct. (Of course, in here I'm only addressing the typical extremes of either gender, who are most visible.) Believe any unbiased pilots will accept female colleagues (or coloured) if they can perform the task at hand. Bamse01 – Check the grammar, it shows that I was referring to an airline in America, not AA. Think it was on the West Coast, late 70'ies. If I ever retrieve the clip (probably in a box of memorabilia in the basement), I'll scan it. Believe Alaska Airlines pioneered by getting their first female pilot around the mid-70'ies. Don't know which one was first. Teddy R – you're right that the "glass ceiling" is definitely a sad fact. Not so much about ill-will, more due to the genders having different codes of speech and conduct. This alienation will improve slowly but surely, as modern kids are allowed to share the same environments and grow used to each other. There's hope. Basil – thanks for giving us a female bosun on a tall ship. Impressive. Wonder if she would have got there 30-40 yrs ago… Any other examples out there? Rananim – Do believe your story about those female pax: Men tend to lean back and reckon the airline vouch for the competence of their pilots. Alas – there were sooo many better female pilots than Amelia in those early days! (Guess you have to die to make the headlines forever after.) Check Beryl Markham and others who made it on their own by actual virtue, then lived to ripe old age. Flystudent – "quotas" are indeed a sore spot. Must admit though, that even if they seem unfair to some and often are enforced in a clumsy way, they do serve a purpose. Women are not a minority (about 50% of the population). Africans are not a minority on their own continent. Most 3rd world (?) airlines have programmes to get their natives into the cockpit. Of course, white western males have been in command of the aviation business since the very start, so that most of us are led to believe they're the only species who can fly an aircraft. Give the rest equal time to catch up, then take stock! Maxalt – Won't write off your "information" completely, although it may be somewhat distorted after being processed via your personal filter. We all know that men are known to use any means to obtain their goals, never mind whose job they take, so whose legs are you trying to pull? Better luck in the previous century, dear. Keep up the good work, an' spill your guts, guys & gals! :ok: :hmm: |
We all know that men are known to use any means to obtain their goals, never mind whose job they take |
Maxalt, baby.
I had you HALF convinced??? Heh, that's 99.99% more than I'd ever hope for. Let go of my leg, rugrat! Beddybye! :rolleyes: :E |
Keep on hopin' baby! :}
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We all know that men are known to use any means to obtain their goals... Gee, what a pity, you sounded so reasonable and plausible before that comment.:* |
"Of course white western males have been in command of the aviation business since the very start so that most of us are led to believe they are the only ones who can fly an aircraft"
Perhaps if we had waited for any one else to design, build, fly aircraft we would still be walking. Prospector |
maxalt I guess you don't have children.......:ooh: So, it might be an education to inform you that the success rate for an egg being fertilised and implanting in any one cycle are slightly less than 20%. So in light of that fact, do you think it is that easy to plan a pregnancy the way you are suggesting??
And BTW, I know you're being controversial for the sake of it, but don't be silly with it! :\ |
Before you recruit a female as a pilot , ask about the sickness rate and how often they are off on full pay dropping sprogs 1
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Here are a few historical facts from the Int. Society of Women Airline Pilots' website:
*Helen Ritchey was the first documented and verified female pilot to be hired to fly as a pilot of a commercial scheduled passenger carrier when the U.S. carrier, Central Airlines, hired her on December 13, 1934. The pilots wouldn't allow her to join the all-male pilot union so she was forced to resign in October of 1935. We are currently investigating two other woman that may take Helen's place in history, Betty Russell - purported to be flying for Royle and Andrews Flying Service in 1930 out of Alameda, California, and Marga von Etzdorf, purported to have flown Junkers F-13's for Lufthansa in 1927.* There are now women flying for airlines even intraditionally conservative counties/cultures such as Japan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. |
What about Saudia?
Though not. Blinkered sexual prejudice still rules in some quarters. But we mustn't upset them - they've got the oil.... |
Over thirty years ago I taught for a couple of years in a girls grammar school. Think back to those times and the prevailing attitudes - attitudes that included gender based aptitudes (girls: touchy- feely, caring occupations, etc. boys: leaders, maths and science, etc.). Unaware of these stereotypes (and with only a couple of male staff, of whom I was one) these pupils shone just as well at maths and science as the boys at their grammar school down the road. In fact better, a team of sixth formers won a national schools competition for physics and a prize in a national school maths competition - all without a hint of sexual politics or positioning - it was just pride in school work and good teaching. I don't remember anyone crowing about girls beating boys. A marked contrast to the comparative performance, even now, of girls vs boys in school maths and science.
My observations since then is that girls are different (!!!!), they generally do better at school (for lots of reasons) and only lose out later on when either 'up against boys' in situations where jostling for position pertains - everything from wanting the class to stay on track, competing for access to equipment through to ruthlessness (or lack of) in competing for promotion - or when they 'discover' the opposite sex. This happens at a crucial time for future careers, etc. - think of how many women have ditched their own academic / professional development in order to follow their man. When they find a way through that, and this is nowadays getting much better/easier, then there is no difference in intellectual or professional ability explained by gender alone. It's not women who are changing, there have always been some who defied the 'rules' (Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, Margaret Thatcher, .......) and rose to the top in men's worlds, it is society's attitudes and opportunities - nurture over nature as educationalists, social scientists might say. Where there are differences they tend to be subtle and/or generalisations such that you might 'find' between nationalities, cultures, etc.. Anyway - happy flying to all of you - boys and girls, men and women. WE. |
fact
Ryanair maternity policy, like many others in the industry is no more than statutory minimum - nobody goes off on full pay to drop sprogs.
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This thread gets better and better…
Snigs – you sure shot that *** down with facts!
Piton – women pilots in the US are recorded, but their European counterparts are more obscure. Still haven't found which European airline had the first female pilot. WangEye – thank you ever so much! The lack of male role models in grammar school has been a problem for ages: Most men traditionally shie away from taking care of our young ones (defined as feminine area). My daughter told me early on that the noisy and hyperactive boys were in command of the classroom environment, so it was hard to learn anything. When they were assigned a male teacher in 4th grade, she was happy that he'd control the boys so that the girls were allowed to study. As you pointed out - upon reaching puberty, formerly bright girls hide their intellect in order to attract the boys' attention, dressing up and making up and faking whatever. Ok, I'll consider hormones and the ancient natural command regarding procreation. Still – mankind here did long ago relieve the female gender from the curse of multiple unwanted births and washing clothes in a river, etc etc. By inventing machinery which gave females time to think. The last 2-3 decades girls have been permitted to participate on the same level as boys. Even in the 21st century we are daily reminded that some representatives of the male gender has not caught on to this development. No matter what – life goes on, and men are now on "quotas" for positions in kindergarten (or whatever you call it) so as to give the hyperactive boys ways to deploy their energy until they grow old enough to realize that they actually have a brain. Talking about different gender codes: Typical men are aggressive and figh, typical women are peaceful and talk. Which type would you prefer to have in the cockpit of an airline? Wherever males are put together, they tend to "measure up" and this may ruin CRM. Also has been known to create accidents. Any environment improves when females are introduced into male territory. Frangatang & Flyma & Maxalt – "sprogs" popped by anyone today, may be the airline captains of tomorrow… If your mums had had to choose between career and offspring, maybe you wouldn't even be in the air by now? Thanks to all of you who posted opinions and experiences confirming that the world turns, no matter what… :( :O :rolleyes: :p :hmm: |
This serious issue has illiceted some hillarious responses. Thanks for the 'hiberno english' jokes. That made me pee my pants!!
Great to see boys and girls can still keep humour when disussing this subject. |
Nardi Riviera - Actually the dates I quoted from ISWAP are not just US - the Junckers pilot mentioned from1927 was with Lufthansa. On their webpage they also have a list of the national "firsts" that they received from those of us who came later. I think you'll find 1927 hard to beat at least for an airline pilot.
Many of us in Europe have put some effort into recording the pioneering flights (eg first female fo, first female captain, first all female crew) that took place in the last 15-20 years. When I started flying in Europe we (female flightcrew) were rare enough that we almost knew each other - we knew that airline A had one & airline B had 3 etc... Luckily now the percentages have increased and I no longer even personally know all the women in my airline (25 - 30 out of 350). WangEye - I went to an all girls school and with hindsight I agree it certainly makes a difference that the person who came first in maths or physics was always a girl - there was no suggestion we couldn't cope with the subject matter and we just got on with it! |
Not all women want children. I don't, and I get just as annoyed as blokes do that there is the possibility now of women having up to a year off, PAID, to bring up their children. I don't plan on having sprogs, but I would still like to have a year's holiday with a wage-packet.
Of course, interviewers can't ask the girls whether they plan on having kids or not. |
Interesting. Lots of references to women flying in the civilian world but none to those who fly in the military. I can think of one familiar name who flew all manner of military aircraft and then moved to her present career flying passengers around.
I rather think her abilities and talents would make many who have posted here look very ordinary indeed although she would never say so. |
Nardi
Have nothing against sprogs, in fact I have one of my own - was purely trying to dispel the myth that women are paid their full pay whilst on maternity leave. To anyone else who thinks it's a year's paid holiday, here are the facts - statutory maternity pay is 90 % of your salary for the first 6 weeks of maternity leave and £102.80 per week for 20 weeks. The remaining 26 weeks of maternity leave should you wish to take it are TOTALLY UNPAID. |
Not all women want children. I don't, and I get just as annoyed as blokes do that there is the possibility now of women having up to a year off, PAID, to bring up their children. I don't plan on having sprogs, but I would still like to have a year's holiday with a wage-packet. very strange in fact that egoistic vision of the world. Procreation means survival of mankind, and surely for most of us it means as well that when we grow old, somebody will be able to take care of us. I personaly find it fair that women have that compensation. In France were it is not allowed for pregnant women to fly for the all 9 month, PILOT or F/A receive 90% of their basic salary paid for by the employer. A pity it is not the same everywhere in Europe. |
Maybe irrelivent now - but the exact figure for female pilots in ryanair is 12 - out of a total of around 670 on-line.
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At least somone.. thanks for the numbers Cant_fly :)
Merry Xmas to you!! anyone know the ratio between male and female atpl holders in europe? |
not posted anything for a while, but the petty squabbling going on here needs a reply.
Do I have a problem with female pilots? , No, provided they make the grade. However I am sure there is plenty of positive discrimination going on, I've seen it in may industries whilst they try to get their PC quotas right. After a while the balance becomes OK and sanity returns or the companies realise it can't be achieved and give up. PC assumption, 'men and women are the same with the same abilities'. FACT this is not so. most of the comments in this thread highlight what they see as their genders strong points, often exactly the points the other gender sees as their weak points AND YOU CAN'T SEE IT! If you look at some other industies, lets take engineering, Female engineers are few and far between. The Engineering council has tried all kinds of ways to get girls into engineering, including blatant discrimination. Result, the Engineering Council says the drive was basically a failure, girls are basically not interrested in engineering as a job. However the few that are there are normally there because they want to and hence tend to be quite good. A lot of blokes in engineering are there because its a job they can do, it comes naturally and hence may aren't well motivated. Sound like aviation? Other differences, illuded to in other postings, how do the genders respond to crises/ pressure/ failure. Generlisation girls cry blokes come out fighting. I've experinced both when the chips are down. The problem that a lot of the posts here point to is that in a safety critical application the fighter will survive, fly the plane until its on the deck where as the tears approach accepts defeat and death. Now the women reading this are probably about to skin me alive but what they- you- need to realise is that is how the men see it. It is also very true that men do not know how to handle women bursting into tears in a proffessional environment if they don't get their own way. Not many women equals little experinece of handling them:E , so faced with all the very real possibilities of discrimination claims etc men give in and go for the easy option, also looks good for quotas etc. I personally work with a few women, most good one or two not good. Which ones do I and my male colleagues prefer to work with? The ones who will join in the banter, not get all PC or put in a complaint if they think you've overstepped the mark slightly but would rather give as good as they get. I suspect that the majority of the female posters here are in this catergory, you seam quite good at giving. However, if you get a women who is known to file complaints about harassment at the drop of a hat its like having an icy gale in the room (one women I know filed a formal complaint because a male colleague farted near her). If you get an unkown women, men tend to be very cautious until they know what camp that women is in. Given this situation, fuelled larely by fear of harassment/preudice complaints is it surprising that some very reasonable guys say they prefer to fly with other blokes? |
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