Was a procedure in the Air Europe Italy ops manual in 1990. Do not know if it came from Air Europe UK.
Seems mighty strange procedure to me but may be less risky than having a ramp agent or engineer near aircraft with cellphone switched on whilst refuelling!!!

Seems as though it may be the case that only in France is it regarded as a crime!
Now thats a strange thing is it not!!!!

In 1990, there was no JAR-OPS. I flew the 767 in the UK around 1991 and there was no agreement for any refueling with one engine turning...
There is after all one thing to admit : as many people already wrote it in this topic, there is no real safety concerns in Blue Panorama. Too bad.

"There is zero maintenance done during the busy summer season, we flew a whole season with a leaking centre fuel tank which Boeing told us not to use."

"Two of the captains there were scared of flying (I know this is getting unbelievable now but I kid you not)......One just lived terrified the other got around the problem by turning up drunk, Not having had a drink mind you but drunk. I noticed this on a MXP-SSH trip with the leaking tank and he sobered up over Athens, left the flight deck for about thirty minutes to top up."

"Some crew believe it is "not possible to get windshear if there are no mountains" despite thunderstorms in the vicinity."

This airline beggars belief!!!!!!! I am amazed this sort of thing is allowed to happen within the EU. Words fail me!!!!

Cannot comment on the 737 shorthaul operation but the 767 longhaul operation continues with the senior captains,with thousands of hours of worldwide longhaul experience trying to maintain standards.
What is now p****g us all off bigtime are the inflammatory and mostly inaccurate and unhelpful posts from a group of expat pilots,who were given employment when they had none, and now, having parted company are trying to sink that ship and all who sail in it.Well done guys, you do your nation proud.
Most of your shots should be aimed at the Italian governing authority who allow such absurd flight time limitations,private deals between flight ops inspectors and their companies and indeed the present Italian government.
Go and bite the hand of someone else and let us try and improve our lot, but dont take that arrogant stance of condemning just because things are not done the perfect french way.
No offence meant.
B.T.W. understand BA has procedure for engine-running refuelling at this present time but then, we are not quite as expert as you on JAR Ops so maybe you should inform BA that they are breaking the French law.

Review your geography Zingaro. Belgium is not a french condominium... Proud to be Belgian and happy to be out of your italian "business".
Take care.

From Brussels (BELGIUM)
CARPEDIEM:)

Good point Mr. Diem but you do share a common border.
I am happy for you that you are out of it all.
My point is that the point has been clearly made that BPA has problems that still need to be addressed. Statements on a public forum suggesting that aircraft will fall out of the sky if they have BPA written on the side are stupid and serve to help no-one.
Unemployed pilots, mainly from 2 companies that failed i.e. Aeris and Sobelair, have waged a 2 month long attack on a company that gave them work. That company(at least the longhaul part) was formed in a very short period by some very good refugee pilots fleeing Mr. Soddu and the failing Volare regime. Most of those original pilots, ex Air Europe Italy, left due to the difficulty of acheiving progress with the present management structure,leaving much work still unfinished.
Now, let those pilots that remain try to effect the changes that still need to be made. Go and be happy with the money that BPA paid you while you had no other offer of employment and,in one years time, write to us all and let us know of the nirvana that you have found.
Genuine good luck wish to everyone who has left for pastures new.

Dear Zingaro,

Just some pieces of advise.

Sorry to see you alone on this, but the issue is about SAFETY and nationality has nothing to do with it.


-------------------------------------------------------
767 longhaul operation continues with the senior captains,with thousands of hours of worldwide longhaul experience trying to maintain standards.
-------------------------------------------------------

it is of my knowledge that most of the above captains are "expat" as well and many of the posts on safety violations are by italian pilots.


"Trying to maintain" does not have the same meaning of "maintaining".
"Trying to maintain" was what most former BPA pilots were doing with safety standards.
Although not an "expat" and although "trying to maintain standards" I left BPA because Safety is not an option.


"absurd" and "arrogant" shold be better addressed

Why hasn't anybody let the journos know about this airline ? Apparently, no other airline in Italy seems to be conducting operations in such an atrocious manner.

Should a big "problem" occur in the future, apart from casualties, it will just be another boring TV story of procedures not being abid by because of pressures on pilots, tech logs considered as toilet paper. Witnesses being called in and questionned by the police. Prison for some. Networks spreading outside the airline's bounderies...etc..Very Italian.

Anyhow, I already know I will never embark on BPA ships and will tell my friends not to either. GOD !!!! You simply don't fly with a leaking fuel pump !

Bijave,
With yet another serious allegation on this forum could you please give some details.Might be a good idea to check out the facts,then consult the B767 MEL.
This forum seems to be surpassing the attack on Volare a few years ago.They must be breathing a sigh of relief because I am sure they have not changed one little bitty bit.
What I suspect is that Mr. President is enjoying all the attention.

Zingaro, all I do is read posts on this forum and I get scared. I simply guess people haven't made these stories up. Also, attacks sound very much tuned on Italian management rather than on fellow international colleagues.

Perhaps can we ask to Zingaro why the SENIOR captains still in Blue Panorama:
- cross atlantic at night with MCP inop (RVSM approved ???)
- fly with speedbrakes deployed at FL 310 on a two legs trip because THE captain made a big mistake with the MLW calculation.. incredible but true!

Don't worry : italian line training captains ...
take care:ok:

Gentlemen,
All I can say is that none of these things have ever happened on my flightdeck and never will. I have input in the past regarding who should be flying etc.
What I wish to say yet again is my present contempt for the continuing attacks on BPA.
You are helping no-one believe me.
However, as I realise from the history of this thread, we are going to go on hearing more tails from pissed-off pilots.
Carry on guys,without any more comment from me.
Instead of firing off on this thread why dont you use the energy on some community work.
Safe flying to all of you.
Zingaro.

The topic was started not for the fun of attacking Blue Panorama on days off, but because a very dangerous lack of safety has been detected in an abnormally high number of situations.
Many pilots, have confirmed that Blue Panorama is operating under the influence (o.u.i.) of a person that, as sole owner, is blatantly setting is own rules in spite of all regulations.

The Forum is trying to make it a safer place for those that still have to fly with BPA including the unaware passengers and Zingaro.

So, what's the score? Pecci wins again?

He has won on everything up to now!

Suprised that this kind of operation would be allowed in European airspace,I guess this is not the end of the story...

As a wannabe thank god for Prune. It opens my eyes to another airline I would rather earn stars in McDonalds than fly for.

Thanks for all those who have posted about them, obviously I don't take prune as gospel but its a good feeding ground to start digging and the hole this thread has created is well la.a.........a...r...g....ee (in echo voice)

After reading this I think the "model of Reason" can be made up in the near future :(

Blue Banana was, and is, a good opportunity to upgrade to nice airplanes for quite a few guys.

Just bring along a LOT of vaseline.