Flight Deck Access for passangers
 

I know this has been beaten to death but.....

I am a frequent visitor to a website for airline crews to send email, check weather, look at photos etc.

It also has a very large database of aviation pictures, over 60,000 i believe. In one section, it is dedicated strictly to flightdeck photos. I am very surprised to see lots of new additions of flight deck pictures from all sorts of airlines from inside all sorts of aircraft in all sorts of phases of flight.

Most, are from asian carriers, eastern european carriers and lots from south african carriers.

Are passangers still getting unrestricted access to flight decks?

And if not passangers, who is taking all these photos from the flight deck?

You must check out these photo's for your-selfs,
right hand side of the page, half way down, type in any letters, doesn't matter and hit SHOW PHOTOS. A screen appears that says photos do not apear in your query, at the bottom click on PHOTO INDEX and then CATAGORY, then click on inside views of the flightdeck.

Now check out the dates these photos were taken. I will admit, some are taken by the crew, some are on the ground, but quite a few are in the air taken by passangers!


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

So? There's a fair bit of contention about the appropriateness & effectiveness of the security paranoia.

In a lot of European and Asian countries flight deck visits are still allowed, this includes carriers such as Air France. I'll stay on British carriers for the time being.

In my opinion i can't think of anything more stupid than still letting passengers come freely on the flight deck without any prior security/background checks.

Back in the normal world it used to happen all the time. I sat in the cockpit more than one time for a few hours based on my ID or Business Card.....
Now that the Paranoia has set in it will be a long time before that happens again.
As to Air France, thats not abnormal, they are in Bed with most of the offending countries anyway, so its old home week for them.
Missles in Bagdhad.......supplied by France.....
Tape of the DHL shooting..........given to the French....
on and on....

Just because the FAA and the CAA choose to impose ridiculous knee-jerk restrictions it doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to follow. And, in fact, they don't. The answer is that YES the great majority of non British and non US companies still allow FD visits. Good for them!

Standing-by to be preached to by people such as GrantT :*

Seems you've misunderstood me, Avman. You have obviously failed to understand the meaning & ramifications of the word 'paranoia'.

Paranoia:

1 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations
2 : a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others


Please note that I used the term to refer to current security practices. Care to reconsider your comment about where I stand concerning security?

I find silly that a foreign carrier coming into a country like the UK, that has a restriction on flightdeck visit's, allows passangers into the flight deck during all phases of flight!

Where as a UK based carrier will not allow people into the flightdeck.

It makes no sense.


It should be an international law, forbidding crew to allow any person, other than a civil avition rep or cheif pilot, entry to a flightdeck during any phase of flight. End of storey. Do not pass go, do not collect 200$, go directly to jail.

Here's the latest rules from the DOT, effective tomorrow:

The existing policy for use of Flight Deck Jumpseats to the US will be extended to all destinations from Friday 28 November 2003. The policy is as below.

The aeroplane commander may not permit flight deck access if not in compliance with the criteria contained in this Direction. The aeroplane commander has ultimate discretion over a person’s access to the flight deck, including for otherwise “permitted persons”. Whilst the commander retains the right to refuse to allow any person into the flight crew compartment, the commander does not have the right to allow any person to enter the flight deck who is not a “permitted person”.

The following is a list of permitted persons allowed to enter the flight deck as directed to UK airlines by the Department of Transport.

Permitted Persons
(i) Any member of the operating crew including flight and cabin crew.
(ii) Flight and cabin crew employed by the airline who are off duty but either travelling to start their duty, or travelling after its close, when no seat is available in the passenger cabin.
(iii) Airline company personnel when travelling on duty, when no seat is available in the passenger cabin.
(iv) Personnel from a company in the same group of companies as the airline company, when travelling on company business, when there is an established common security screening and ID issuing process, and when no seat is available in the passenger cabin.
(v) Pilots conducting training duties.
(vi) CAA officials, AAIB officials and DfT officials, with statutory powers to enter and remain on a flight deck when on duty.
(vii) Persons who need to have access to the flight deck for reasons relating to aviation safety.
(viii) Any other category of person approved in advance by the CAA.

Validation of Permitted Persons
Permitted persons seeking to enter the flight deck must have a valid photographic ID. A valid photographic ID is one which satisfies the criteria in the Operations Manual and the aeroplane commander as to the bonafides of the person. All such IDs must be shown to and checked by the aeroplane commander before the flight.

Other categories of persons with an identified operational need to enter and remain on the flight deck.
Such persons should have a means of positive identification and the aeroplane commander must be informed in writing by the DFO or the CP of the carriage of such persons and at what phases of the flight they may have access to the flight deck and remain on the flight deck. This should also include information of the person’s name and exact reason for authority to occupy a supernumerary flight deck jump seat.

Such persons include:
(a) A manufacturer’s representative who has an operational need to enter and remain on the flight deck.
(b) A person who is conducting research into flight deck operational issues such as FTL, air quality etc.
(c) A person who for operational purposes needs to take photographs of the approach and landing at an aerodrome.
(d) An Air Traffic Control Officer for the purpose of familiarisation.

Certainly, the days when pax could walk on board and ask for the j/s for landing (or more) are long gone, on any airline, but it is heartening to know that the whole world hasn't gone into TSA/FAA/CAA-land.

Quite apart from an appreciation of the fact that there are many aspiring pilots who could benefit from such access, there is also the aspect of facilitating aviation articles and videos, which are very popular and could serve very effectively as a training aid as well as a keepsake for enthusiasts.

For my own part, I used to write "from the cockpit" articles for a US magazine and that's now almost impossible to organise - but I will be trying other other carriers now!

Aren´t they the rules that BA have had for nearly a year now? They´ve certainly put a few noses out of joint....

That's all fine and dandy for the 75% of flights in and out of an airport, say LHR, that are domestic flagged carriers or governed by the FAA or CAA.

How about the other 25% that are foreign and have no restriction's on jumpseat visitor's?

Is it not a requirement for foreign flagged carriers to comply with a set of maintenance requirements before the CAA allows them flight into UK airspace?

Why not jumpseat restrictions? I am sure it is as much of a threat, post 9/11, than faulty maintenance work always has been.

This does pose the question though, are people with 'undesirable' intentions actually gonna ask for a jump seat. I don't know how strong the doors are now, but surely if they wanna get in they're going to. On some a/c (read 737) it might actually prevent someone getting in the flight dec if there's an occupant in the jump seat. I used to love the jumpseats i got. Strapped in for takeoff (usually happened with a friendly irish airline) and stayed there till all the pax got off on the other side. Had an absolutely fantastic time, and the seat was more comfortable that in the back (except when i forgot the f/d roof was as low as it was and banged a couple of switches and c/b's)
(okay waiting for the beer bottles to come shooting on stage).

Pax haven't been permitted on the flight deck in the U.S. for nearly three decades now, it is still a novel concept in some countries...

Airbubba, I´ve certainly jumpseated as a pax on U.S airlines only a few years ago. I was on a U.K airline staff ticket, not in uniform and allowed on the flight deck j/s.

My most sincere apologies Tinstaafl . Made my posting in haste and I meant to refer to GrantT 's posting not yours. :\

Flight Deck Access for passangers
 

Banning fd visits is ridiculous because a hijacker is not going to ask permission to enter in the flight deck. He will just go regardless the crew regulation or strength of the cockpit door. Security starts and ends in the ground.

As far as I am concerned I try to avoid British or US airlines just for that reason - I like to be able to ask a cockpit visit.


Rwy in Sight

>>Airbubba, I´ve certainly jumpseated as a pax on U.S airlines only a few years ago. I was on a U.K airline staff ticket, not in uniform and allowed on the flight deck j/s.<<

You were admitted to the flight deck on the basis of your airline ID and pilot's license. And unlike Europe, you didn't need the staff ticket to ride the jumpseat.

Ah! Wholeheartedly agree with your contention, Avman. :ok:



blody tippos

B Sousa,
you pathetic :mad:, just learn to read (especially in that thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=109823 ), the Baghdad missile was Russian, the rest of your post doesn't even deserve an answer.

Bring back regular fam flights for ATC staff!!!!!!!!!