BALPA Rep joins BA management
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BALPA Rep joins BA management
The chairman of the BA section of BALPA has just resigned and announced he is to become a senior manager with BA! Turns out that he was in discussions with BA about his new job whilst still negotiating for BALPA (GSS deal for BA commands). However you dress it up that is a conflict of interests and deeply worrying for the union.
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Not exactly a new occurence.
The same happened in jmc last year (albeit a council member, not chairman). And I believe it has happened several times in Britannia in the last 40 years.
Slightly worrying maybe, but not surprising.
The same happened in jmc last year (albeit a council member, not chairman). And I believe it has happened several times in Britannia in the last 40 years.
Slightly worrying maybe, but not surprising.
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Speaking as a Nigel I see this as purely innocent. They offered him a large pay-rise, an opportunity to improve the mechanisms of the LHR operation from the top level and strangely he took it. The conspiracies that abound are an affront to his obvious abilities. Good luck to him. Perhaps now the directors will have someone erudite enough to pass on a pilots perspective at BAA's busiest airport.
I hope the individual concerned remembers us on the way up.
I hope the individual concerned remembers us on the way up.
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Jeez ! Where you been youwererobbed ? Our management is just littered with ex-BALPA reps ! Or do I mean our management is just littered ? Anyway........
Plan of action -- Become a BALPA rep, demonstrate how company minded you can be, and then get into management. Simple ! The rest of the membership is apathetic and weak-willed enough to let it continue. I wonder if HQ is even bothered.
BALPA reps should sign a management waver.
And as I've always said, the CC system is useless. The above is only one of the reasons.
Anyway........Plan of action -- Become a BALPA rep, demonstrate how company minded you can be, and then get into management. Simple ! The rest of the membership is apathetic and weak-willed enough to let it continue. I wonder if HQ is even bothered.
BALPA reps should sign a management waver.
And as I've always said, the CC system is useless. The above is only one of the reasons.
Controversial, moi?
Speaking as a Nigel I see this as purely innocent. They offered him a large pay-rise, an opportunity to improve the mechanisms of the LHR operation from the top level and strangely he took it. The conspiracies that abound are an affront to his obvious abilities. Good luck to him. Perhaps now the directors will have someone erudite enough to pass on a pilots perspective at BAA's busiest airport.
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Land ASAP
I think perhaps we should put your initial comments down to the naivety of youth.
As to your last comment, and speaking from experience, not a snowball's chance in hell!!
MP
I think perhaps we should put your initial comments down to the naivety of youth.
As to your last comment, and speaking from experience, not a snowball's chance in hell!!
MP
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Anthony Carn, I really find your last post quite offensive. I am a "Nigel", and although there is a minority who have led sheltered and blessed flying careers, the vast majority of my colleagues are down to earth, and hard working.
I'm disappointed by what has gone on at BA, but to look on the positive side it is better that the views of the pilot workforce are represented within management by someone who is obviously articulate and capable.
We don't live on another planet, but use this forum to communicate with some others whom we wish did. As the other posts have shown, this problem is not unique to BA - so why turn it into an opportunity to Nigel bash?
I thought we were professionals?
I'm disappointed by what has gone on at BA, but to look on the positive side it is better that the views of the pilot workforce are represented within management by someone who is obviously articulate and capable.
We don't live on another planet, but use this forum to communicate with some others whom we wish did. As the other posts have shown, this problem is not unique to BA - so why turn it into an opportunity to Nigel bash?
I thought we were professionals?
Absolutely nothing new in this - seen it several times before with other companies. In fact, it seems to be par for the course!
One guy I knew (still know!) was the rep on the Staff Association (we didn't have a union) and ended up as the Ops Director when the company was taken over and several of the Board jumped ship to start another company (no names, no packdrill!!).
As they say, be nice to the people on the way up because you never know when you might meet them on the way down.
I don't think that this type of progression means too much in terms of ability but you do get to meet the management on a regular basis and hence it is not too surprising that if the individuals are perceived to be the right material they are offered a management position.
Finally, remember the "Peter Principle" that people rise to their levels of incompetence. This certainly seems to be true with some airline managements that come to mind. Poacher turned Gamekeeper?
One guy I knew (still know!) was the rep on the Staff Association (we didn't have a union) and ended up as the Ops Director when the company was taken over and several of the Board jumped ship to start another company (no names, no packdrill!!).
As they say, be nice to the people on the way up because you never know when you might meet them on the way down.
I don't think that this type of progression means too much in terms of ability but you do get to meet the management on a regular basis and hence it is not too surprising that if the individuals are perceived to be the right material they are offered a management position.
Finally, remember the "Peter Principle" that people rise to their levels of incompetence. This certainly seems to be true with some airline managements that come to mind. Poacher turned Gamekeeper?
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Mini mums,
I think it can be said that the vast majority of your professional pilots are honest hardworking chaps/chapesses and have their hearts in the right place.
However there still exists a hard core in BA who think they are God's gift to aviation and women. You also get the ambitious b******s who choose to be a union official and use this as a stepping stone into management.
I speak now from personal experience, and I don't mean as one of those b******s, and have seen the pilot work force sold down the river so that a certain "gentleman" could further his management career.
For the terminally curious he retired some years ago, never to be seen again.
MP
I think it can be said that the vast majority of your professional pilots are honest hardworking chaps/chapesses and have their hearts in the right place.
However there still exists a hard core in BA who think they are God's gift to aviation and women. You also get the ambitious b******s who choose to be a union official and use this as a stepping stone into management.
I speak now from personal experience, and I don't mean as one of those b******s, and have seen the pilot work force sold down the river so that a certain "gentleman" could further his management career.
For the terminally curious he retired some years ago, never to be seen again.
MP
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Anthony Carn
I am a so-called 'Nigel' as well. I object to your comment. I live in the real world and BA is not the only company I've worked for.
I look forward to buying you a pint at the Gatbash and perhaps we can soothe your obvious resentment of BA pilots.
On the subject topic, I feel totally let-down by this appointment. I left BALPA some while ago and was contemplating rejoining, but will now not. This compounds my suspicions that some BALPA reps seem to love the intoxicating whiffs of power they experience during meetings with management. They are seduced.
I imagine the conversation:
"...well you certainly know a fair bit about cricket mate. Now a man with negotiating skills like yourself, you're wasting your time in BALPA, I've got a job for you..."
I am a so-called 'Nigel' as well. I object to your comment. I live in the real world and BA is not the only company I've worked for.
I look forward to buying you a pint at the Gatbash and perhaps we can soothe your obvious resentment of BA pilots.
On the subject topic, I feel totally let-down by this appointment. I left BALPA some while ago and was contemplating rejoining, but will now not. This compounds my suspicions that some BALPA reps seem to love the intoxicating whiffs of power they experience during meetings with management. They are seduced.
I imagine the conversation:
"...well you certainly know a fair bit about cricket mate. Now a man with negotiating skills like yourself, you're wasting your time in BALPA, I've got a job for you..."
Another Nigel writes....
Having worked for BA for 18 years and UK independent airlines before that I am still waiting to meet these supposedly well known "Gods gifts" and other assorted arrogant so and so's.
The truth is that the cross section of pilot's in BA is exactly the same as in other airlines. Until you have actually worked for BA, the sort of comments that regularly appear here can seem like sour grapes......
The truth is that the cross section of pilot's in BA is exactly the same as in other airlines. Until you have actually worked for BA, the sort of comments that regularly appear here can seem like sour grapes......
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Thank you all who describe me as naive. May I return the compliment by describing you as conspiratorial.
Is the supposed defector meant to have spent the last 3 years on a bribe so that eventually he may jump ship when the troops have discovered his treachory? Really?
PPrune's failings have been summed up quite succinctly in the previous 14 postings. Open with a rumour/fact. In fly the theories. Round it off with 'Nigel baiting' from an intellectually inferior interloper (who 5 years ago couldn't get his head round how to build a lego tower as part of a group of 5 competitive males at Meadowbank). There you have it. Lovely.
Some of you sound like David Ike.
Is the supposed defector meant to have spent the last 3 years on a bribe so that eventually he may jump ship when the troops have discovered his treachory? Really?
PPrune's failings have been summed up quite succinctly in the previous 14 postings. Open with a rumour/fact. In fly the theories. Round it off with 'Nigel baiting' from an intellectually inferior interloper (who 5 years ago couldn't get his head round how to build a lego tower as part of a group of 5 competitive males at Meadowbank). There you have it. Lovely.
Some of you sound like David Ike.
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Land ASAP which part of the original post was rumour? It was all fact or I wouldn't have put it here. The main point is, however much you like or respect RH, he must have had a conflict of interests whilst negotiating on one hand with BA with regard to his management job (remember first contact with Uncle Rod was 1st Aug) and his BALPA negotiations.
There should be a period of time between someone leaving BALPA and taking up a position with "the other side". Common decency would lead most to take that view. Do you not find it worrying that our chief negotiator has changed sides? I think it IS naive to believe that RH won't be suppling BA with info regarding our 2003/4 pay deal. It will be interesting to see how good a deal it turns out and who now takes over the Chairmanship of the BACC.....maybe another self promoter with BA management as his final goal.
RH's motivation can't be the well being of the FC community or he'd still be in BALPA. I'm always suspicious of anybody who gives up flying to work behind a desk........!
There should be a period of time between someone leaving BALPA and taking up a position with "the other side". Common decency would lead most to take that view. Do you not find it worrying that our chief negotiator has changed sides? I think it IS naive to believe that RH won't be suppling BA with info regarding our 2003/4 pay deal. It will be interesting to see how good a deal it turns out and who now takes over the Chairmanship of the BACC.....maybe another self promoter with BA management as his final goal.
RH's motivation can't be the well being of the FC community or he'd still be in BALPA. I'm always suspicious of anybody who gives up flying to work behind a desk........!
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normal_nigel,
Neither,
I held a CPL/IR at the age of twenty and was flashing round in a Vickers Viscount, probably before you were a twinkle in your mummy's eye. In fact I flew the Viscounts at Cosford and Duxford before I could drive a motor car.
Incidentally, I was the youngest on the crew as the cabin crew had to over twenty-one and single in those days.
Never fancied the RAF as the pay was cr*p, the hours too long and the hosties downright ugly.
MP
PS I don't have a rich Mummy and Daddy but got sponsored by Cambrian Airways plus a top-up from some damages from a car accident when I was on my push-bike.
PPS I also worked as a road-man when the money got short.
Neither,
I held a CPL/IR at the age of twenty and was flashing round in a Vickers Viscount, probably before you were a twinkle in your mummy's eye. In fact I flew the Viscounts at Cosford and Duxford before I could drive a motor car.
Incidentally, I was the youngest on the crew as the cabin crew had to over twenty-one and single in those days.
Never fancied the RAF as the pay was cr*p, the hours too long and the hosties downright ugly.
MP
PS I don't have a rich Mummy and Daddy but got sponsored by Cambrian Airways plus a top-up from some damages from a car accident when I was on my push-bike.
PPS I also worked as a road-man when the money got short.