Delta evacuation in Tampa

[Few Cloudy]

Well, it's a valuable thread now

Having worked on the procedures and rules for evacuation in a past job, it's hard to give a non wordy answer but here goes:

There are many reasons to evacuate an aircraft - some apparent to the cockpit crew - some to the cabin crew and some to the tower or other aircraft. After a Take-off abort for any reason the cockpit crew is extremely busy with procedures depending on the reason for the abort. Ditto after an emergency landing. The next task is to evaluate the safety side and decide on an evac or not.

The captain should, however have an announcement made as soon as possible so that the cabin crew and pax know what is going on. If the decision is to keep seats, this should be announced. If a reasonable time goes by and there is no announcement the cabin crew have to get busy - maybe the pilots are incapacitated or dead.

But for the very good reasons mentioned above (running engines - electrical and other systems - emergency lights not on etc.) an evacuation without cockpit support is extremely hazardous so there has to be a pretty pressing reason to do one. Where I was, we decided on "Explosive fire in the cabin" "Aircraft structure (meaning cabin area) broken" and "Ditching". Even then, it is of the utmost importance that the aircraft is stopped.

While this reasonable time (it is very short but seems like ages after an incident) is passing, the #1 is well advised to try to get contact with the cockpit crew. Why?

Because firstly, in order to make the evac decision, the cockpit crew needs all the info it can get, including a report from the cabin crew - things may not look so good when this gets in - or vice versa.

Secondly the cabin crew member will see the state of the cockpit - if the guys are done for then it will be evident that no checklist work has been done, meaning the aircraft is not prepared for evacuation, meaning increased hazards for all concerned.

It's not a matter of "not messing around" asking the cockpit crew - that is the way it is trained in most places. It has to be co-ordinated somewhere and that is usually the cockpit. There is no "power play" here - teamwork of the highest order is required.
It is infinitely more beneficial to chat within the crew about these matters before a flight than to say how you like your coffee.

Hope this helps - by all means shoot this post down if you have better ideas/ procedures. We never stop learning.

[racasanman]

As a headset operator I always tell the flight deck if I see any kind of flame from an engine on start up and up to now this has always been acknowledged by the FD.With this the FD can reassure cabin crew if they report that passengers have reported seeing flames. If the flame continues for quite a few seconds I try to give a running commentary of what I am observing.The FD can then monitor the situation with the engine sensors and the information they receive from me and act accordingly. I've witnessed many a hotstart (look great in the dark) and the embreaer 145 on a cold morning provide a good display.However the best display I've seen was a BAE 146 when No. 2 engine disapeared in an orange flame which resulted in a return to stand for further inspection(no damage found).On the subsequent pushback when it came to restart No. 2 the FD asked me if they were clear to start the 'flame-thrower'.The people involved in engine starts that produce a flame know what the situation is unfortunatley the passengers don't and there lies the problem that caused this incident.

[RatherBeFlying]

I've witnessed many a hotstart... the embreaer 145 on a cold morning... provide a good display

racasanman is sure right on that one. I was wondering about the paint job after taxying behind an attention getting example Perhaps that's why Continental Express goes with bare metal.

Whether a hotstart or an abort, prominent flames command a lot of attention in the back. In a true emergency, seconds count. And the consequences of a premature or unnecessary evacuation are much easier to take than a delayed one.

[PaperTiger]

Preliminary report now posted on NTSB site.

[Few Cloudy]

Thank you Tiger,

Succinct report stating facts only - and not good!

[Few Cloudy]

Ryanair incident in Beauvais

See the thread on this sad incident and try to imagine evacuating passengers into this environment. There is the matter of the hot end too.

These people have our trust. Something terrible must be going on in the cabin before a running engine environment becomes the lesser of two evils...