Brit Air aircraft down
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Brit Air aircraft down
Pilot killed but 23 survive plane crash in France
23.06.2003 1.24 pm
NANTES, France - A plane carrying 24 passengers and crew crashed in northwest France on Sunday night killing the pilot, police said.
Three people were injured when the plane ploughed into a road near Brest airport in France's Brittany region just before midnight (10am today NZT). The other 20 onboard escaped relatively unscathed, a police official said.
France's France Info radio reported the aircraft belonged to Brit Air, a unit of French flag carrier Air France. - REUTERS
23.06.2003 1.24 pm
NANTES, France - A plane carrying 24 passengers and crew crashed in northwest France on Sunday night killing the pilot, police said.
Three people were injured when the plane ploughed into a road near Brest airport in France's Brittany region just before midnight (10am today NZT). The other 20 onboard escaped relatively unscathed, a police official said.
France's France Info radio reported the aircraft belonged to Brit Air, a unit of French flag carrier Air France. - REUTERS
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The aircraft, according to the BBC, was en route from Nantes to Brest and (according to the OAG) was AF 5672, a CRJ-200.
I'm in Jersey, about 120mi NE and we had some pretty violent t/storms and lightning last night, so I'm wondering if windshear might have been a factor?
I'm in Jersey, about 120mi NE and we had some pretty violent t/storms and lightning last night, so I'm wondering if windshear might have been a factor?
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(CNN) -- An Air France flight operated by Brit Air -- a French regional airline -- has crashed, killing the pilot and injuring a passenger.
Flight AF 5672, flying from Nantes to Brest, was carrying 21 passengers and 3 crew when it went down about 800 meters (875 yards) short of the runway at Brest-Guipavas airport late Sunday, Brit Air spokeswoman Anne LeBour said.
LeBour provided no explanation for the crash, but said the flight data recorder had been recovered from the Canadair CRJ-100 aircraft.
An investigation into the crash has begun.
Flight AF 5672, flying from Nantes to Brest, was carrying 21 passengers and 3 crew when it went down about 800 meters (875 yards) short of the runway at Brest-Guipavas airport late Sunday, Brit Air spokeswoman Anne LeBour said.
LeBour provided no explanation for the crash, but said the flight data recorder had been recovered from the Canadair CRJ-100 aircraft.
An investigation into the crash has begun.
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What's this "KILLING THE PILOT" statement.
There are TWO PILOTS always!
Reporting by media again is being simplistic.
Killing the Captain or the First Officer, or Killing A Pilot would be more bearable.
RIP
There are TWO PILOTS always!
Reporting by media again is being simplistic.
Killing the Captain or the First Officer, or Killing A Pilot would be more bearable.
RIP
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This is from the National broadcaster in Ireland:
"The cause of the crash is not known. There were thunder clouds at 2,000 feet with a visibility of 800 metres.
Passengers said the plane caught fire very quickly.
The forward door had been torn off, enabling them to scramble out.
Several spoke of possible pilot error. One said he had heard the co-pilot say: ‘I told him to turn up the throttle.’"
Strange thing for a co-pilot to say if it is true.
Condolances to all nonetheless.
"The cause of the crash is not known. There were thunder clouds at 2,000 feet with a visibility of 800 metres.
Passengers said the plane caught fire very quickly.
The forward door had been torn off, enabling them to scramble out.
Several spoke of possible pilot error. One said he had heard the co-pilot say: ‘I told him to turn up the throttle.’"
Strange thing for a co-pilot to say if it is true.
Condolances to all nonetheless.
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Several spoke of possible pilot error. One said he had heard the co-pilot say: "I told him to turn up the throttle"
that's the litteral translation for the french sentence :
"Je lui ai dit de remttre les gazs"
Which means : I told him to go around
Sounds less strange this way ....
that's the litteral translation for the french sentence :
"Je lui ai dit de remttre les gazs"
Which means : I told him to go around
Sounds less strange this way ....
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"Je lui ai dit de remttre les gazs" (sic)
Which means : I told him to go around
Which means : I told him to go around
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"remettre les gaz" means unambiguously "going around" in French phraseology, not "add some power".
In France, a Captain is called "Commandant de Bord" and a First Officer "Officier Pilote de Ligne". I don't see any cultural difference whatsoever...
In France, a Captain is called "Commandant de Bord" and a First Officer "Officier Pilote de Ligne". I don't see any cultural difference whatsoever...
Last edited by Leo45; 24th Jun 2003 at 06:07.
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First of all, as the wreckage lies smoldering by the side of the road just short of the runway, I'd like to lead this posting with my offering of condolenses to the family of the Captain.
Secondly, as a Type Rated TRI on the CRJ, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah...
I am inclined to credit a 5,000 hours plus "ON TYPE" CRJ Captain with having encountered 'something' on the approach that left little or no margin.
I leave your imaginations to evaluate that remark.
The suggestion of Pilot Error at this stage is preposterous. N'est pas???
We may in fact have to deal with the proverbial "error chain" in this one gents. (Not very profound, is it?)
I find the term 'co-pilot' very unprofessional and reeking of disrespect. (But, that's me) IMHO it is also a reference/term that should be swept out of our industry once and for all. As we all know, having at some point in our careers, been the 'co-pilot' we all know how silly the term/reference truly IS!!!!
...and let's not scoff at what the F/O apparently said, or remarked in the final split seconds of the approach for his degree of assertiveness may well be the stuff of MCT/CRM presentations in the months ahead as we examine another CFIT/Windshear/False GS capture/Stall accident on finals.
Who knows???
Let's step back and let the information unfold from the mouths of the French Accident Investigators who literally gather the facts each of us will ultimately learn from.
Willie
Secondly, as a Type Rated TRI on the CRJ, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah...
I am inclined to credit a 5,000 hours plus "ON TYPE" CRJ Captain with having encountered 'something' on the approach that left little or no margin.
I leave your imaginations to evaluate that remark.
The suggestion of Pilot Error at this stage is preposterous. N'est pas???
We may in fact have to deal with the proverbial "error chain" in this one gents. (Not very profound, is it?)
I find the term 'co-pilot' very unprofessional and reeking of disrespect. (But, that's me) IMHO it is also a reference/term that should be swept out of our industry once and for all. As we all know, having at some point in our careers, been the 'co-pilot' we all know how silly the term/reference truly IS!!!!
...and let's not scoff at what the F/O apparently said, or remarked in the final split seconds of the approach for his degree of assertiveness may well be the stuff of MCT/CRM presentations in the months ahead as we examine another CFIT/Windshear/False GS capture/Stall accident on finals.
Who knows???
Let's step back and let the information unfold from the mouths of the French Accident Investigators who literally gather the facts each of us will ultimately learn from.
Willie
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Willie, you are absolutly right with what you said. Something somebody might have heared gives no clue at all about the reasen for the things that have happened. Let`s stop speculating and get back to the world of facts.
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Bonjour Paper Tiger
I can guarantee the sentence "je lui ai dit de remettre les gaz"
actually means "I told him to go around" ... Am a bit used to french speaking since 32 years .
Is just a matter of translation. Word for word is not perfect translation.
Co-pilot ... a problematic word ? Well, don't think so.
I can guarantee the sentence "je lui ai dit de remettre les gaz"
actually means "I told him to go around" ... Am a bit used to french speaking since 32 years .
Is just a matter of translation. Word for word is not perfect translation.
Co-pilot ... a problematic word ? Well, don't think so.
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I can guarantee the sentence "je lui ai dit de remettre les gaz"
actually means "I told him to go around"
Well there's French and there's French
So how would you say "add power" in France ?
actually means "I told him to go around"
Well there's French and there's French
So how would you say "add power" in France ?
"The INTRODUCER"
French>English:
gaz (remettre les...) (verb) : to overshoot, to go around, to put on the power
English>French:
go-around (verb): remettre les gaz
power (put on the) (verb): remettre les gaz
Source...The Aviators English and French Dictoionary, Ron Wingrove and John Jammes, Cranfield University Press, 1995
I'm not saying it's right, but that's what it says. But in practice I'd respect the opinion of Ppruners above who fly in a French cockpit.
gaz (remettre les...) (verb) : to overshoot, to go around, to put on the power
English>French:
go-around (verb): remettre les gaz
power (put on the) (verb): remettre les gaz
Source...The Aviators English and French Dictoionary, Ron Wingrove and John Jammes, Cranfield University Press, 1995
I'm not saying it's right, but that's what it says. But in practice I'd respect the opinion of Ppruners above who fly in a French cockpit.
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Sounds to me like people are arguing two sides of the same coin. Since the go-around procedure inevitably involves whacking on full power, it's hardly surprising that the two phrases "go around" and "increase power" are the same.
Algy's right - what you ultimately understand by the phrase surely depends on what you've been taught as a French pilot operating a French plane, irrespective of what the Google Translator says?
Algy's right - what you ultimately understand by the phrase surely depends on what you've been taught as a French pilot operating a French plane, irrespective of what the Google Translator says?
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For what its worth, latest thoughts. Condolences to all involved.
A sudden illness of the captain is emerging as one of the prime possible causes of yesterday’s crash of a Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet (CRJ-100) at Brest in France.
The 53 year-old commander was the only person who died in the accident and there is reported evidence that he may have collapsed in the cockpit before the impact.
The Brest public prosecutor, Francois Nicot, told French media at the scene that the co-pilot has now said that the captain “had a problem” and that he “collapsed on the controls”. Yesterday the co-pilot was reported by a passenger to have repeatedly said immediately after the accident: “I told him to go around.”
An autopsy on the highly experienced captain, who had 16,000hr total time and 5,300 on-type, is to be held shortly.
Nicot says the possibility of the captain having collapsed remains to be proved, but says he considers it a “serious” one.
The aircraft was landing on runway 26 at Brest-Guipavas airport shortly after midnight in conditions of poor visibility and with broken cloud as low as 200ft (65m), but with light winds. The head of the western region of France’s DGAC described the conditions as “not exceptional for Brest”.
The runway has a Category III instrument landing system and precision approach path indicator (PAPI) lights. It has not been definitively confirmed that they were in use, but there is no suggestion that they were not.
The aircraft hit the ground, landing-gear extended, just over 1nm (2km) from the threshold, broke up due to impact with surface obstacles and caught fire. The 24 passengers escaped through a door which had apparently been torn open.
A sudden illness of the captain is emerging as one of the prime possible causes of yesterday’s crash of a Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet (CRJ-100) at Brest in France.
The 53 year-old commander was the only person who died in the accident and there is reported evidence that he may have collapsed in the cockpit before the impact.
The Brest public prosecutor, Francois Nicot, told French media at the scene that the co-pilot has now said that the captain “had a problem” and that he “collapsed on the controls”. Yesterday the co-pilot was reported by a passenger to have repeatedly said immediately after the accident: “I told him to go around.”
An autopsy on the highly experienced captain, who had 16,000hr total time and 5,300 on-type, is to be held shortly.
Nicot says the possibility of the captain having collapsed remains to be proved, but says he considers it a “serious” one.
The aircraft was landing on runway 26 at Brest-Guipavas airport shortly after midnight in conditions of poor visibility and with broken cloud as low as 200ft (65m), but with light winds. The head of the western region of France’s DGAC described the conditions as “not exceptional for Brest”.
The runway has a Category III instrument landing system and precision approach path indicator (PAPI) lights. It has not been definitively confirmed that they were in use, but there is no suggestion that they were not.
The aircraft hit the ground, landing-gear extended, just over 1nm (2km) from the threshold, broke up due to impact with surface obstacles and caught fire. The 24 passengers escaped through a door which had apparently been torn open.
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Of course I bow to native Francophones. It just struck me as odd that to go around is a phrase which doesn't actually say that, and seems to have conflicting usage. So again, how would the French say add power (as in 'Too low - glideslope') without meaning/implying a go-around ?
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I find it amazing that some are arguing with French natives the meaning of "remise de gaz" ( which is indeed a GO AROUND ), also since, according the BEA rep. ( the French investigating authority) this remark was made by a passenger who heard it apparently .. etc..
Let's wait a bit before speculating as to the reasons of this tragedy, and my sincere condoleances to the capt familly .
For those interested , to ADD POWER is " rajouter de la puissance " ou " remettre/ rajouter des tours " ( ou de la N1) " in day-to-day talk.
Let's wait a bit before speculating as to the reasons of this tragedy, and my sincere condoleances to the capt familly .
For those interested , to ADD POWER is " rajouter de la puissance " ou " remettre/ rajouter des tours " ( ou de la N1) " in day-to-day talk.