Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

727 stolen from Angola

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

727 stolen from Angola

Old 17th Sep 2003, 21:03
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Can this system be modified to feed the airplane itself?
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2003, 00:01
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This type of setup is certainly not new to aviation.

Good friend of mine years ago outfitted two DC-6's with extra cabin tanks (2000 gallons) , for a south pole series of flights.
The extra fuel was used to re-supply ground tanks, and in addition was plumbed to feed the engines enroute.

This all worked fine until one day the bonehead pilot, who insisted to keep the mixtures in autolean during approach/landing (ISO autorich, as the checklist mentioned), wanted to overshoot, cobbed the throttles, found no power available, and crashed.
Everyone walked away, but the aeroplane was a total loss.

Moral to the story...listen to the Flight Engineer.
411A is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2003, 02:19
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My understanding

411A--My understanding of that crash is that they were low on fuel. That's why the mixtures were left leaned out.

I'm not defending the action but there's a little more to the story (as usual). Anyone who's flown over remote terrain or transoceanic knows how unforgiving a simple mistake can be.

And, yes, the FE should be listened to.
Fly safe.
zerozero is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2003, 06:22
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Trailer in BC
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If someone wants to post an actual photo of the tanks installed on N844AA I will be happy to forward it you. I do not have the means to post the picture on the PPrune.
fesmokie is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 00:38
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: England
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stolen 727's internal tankage installation

This is the photo of that stolen 727's internal tankage setup (allegedly 6000 US gallons) - not sure if it is usable for range extension - or just A to B tankerage.

IMHO that aircraft is still a terrorist threat until such time as its fate is credibly determined - and proof positive of any claims being ascertained. Disinformation is still a useful terrorist tool.
.


.

Thanks to Fesmokie for providing it. Faces are blanked out due to provider's request.
OVERTALK is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 01:03
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Trailer in BC
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can assure you that this tank setup was not used for range extension for the aircraft. Loading and unloading of the fuel was performed from a connect point at the aft end using a single hose to the ground and to a gas powered pump. All the tanks had shutoff valves and were connected to a common manifold to the aft of the aircraft.
fesmokie is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 01:30
  #127 (permalink)  

Do a Hover - it avoids G
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chichester West Sussex UK
Age: 91
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nerik

Assessing whether you are on a collision course with another aircraft is remarkably simple. The other aircraft will not move in your transparency. It just grows bigger. This applies regardless of the aspect.

So, if you look (say) 85 deg left and happen to see another aircraft at about your height and on a similar heading, place a chinagraph spot over the other aircraft and if it stays behind the spot you made you WILL hit it in due course unless one of you changes something.

This is a very useful thing to appreciate.

It is also why some guys make better fighter pilots than others - they find it easier to set up such a situation deliberately.
John Farley is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 09:10
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmmm?

If you can't hijack a 767 full of fuel, why not fly a smaller, less obvious plane laden with extra fuel tanks --on a legitimate flight plan.

This plane needs to be found -and quickly.

PT
PlaneTruth is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 15:59
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oversight

Unless this aircraft is being flown unpressurised, which is structurally inadvisable for the 727, there would be considerable engineering problems in using these tanks for range extension. They are in the cabin and the aircraft fuel system is outside.
Nineiron is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2003, 17:14
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Near LOACH intersection
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Considerable engineering problem? Actually it is quite easy. Ferry fuel systems on pressurized aircraft rarely need fuel transfer pumps. The pressure differential is used to move the fuel. "T" into existing lines and simply open the valve when you are ready for transfer
ferrydude is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2003, 03:42
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So with that senerio, how far could that aircraft fly with the additional 6000 US gallons of fuel?

I wish that aircraft and the people on board would be found...



LPJ

Last edited by littlepuddlejumper; 27th Sep 2003 at 08:15.
littlepuddlejumper is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2003, 21:43
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Point conceded Ferrydude, but this is a very public forum. Perhaps also it would be better if LPJ's question remained unanswered.
Nineiron is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2003, 08:44
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: KBOS USA
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Explore these links, and look for a common link. Is the seller a convicted bogus aircraft parts dealer ? It seems that this story is rotten to the core? http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi?p...number=N844AA+ http://77.aviatorsale.com/aix708 http://www.businessweek.com/1996/24/b34791.htm
Golden Rivit is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2003, 22:49
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
littlepuddlejumper,

The extra fuel effectively doubles the range of the 727. I don't think you will see them try to jump across the pond from Africa and fly a completely empty airplane into anything. Any 727 flying across the pond probably ends up with a fighter inspection these days anyway. More likely they would try for a high speed jump across the Mediteranean and make a stab at Buckingham Palace.


I wish they would find it too.
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2003, 23:00
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Huh ? And you don't think an arrival 60 miles into UK airspace would not also have been met with a fighter inspection ? Not to mention a 600 mile transit over France.....
Golf Charlie Charlie is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2003, 00:16
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montgomery, NY, USA
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Smile

The French would grant overflight permission. It is only US military that they deny the rights to.
patrickal is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2003, 00:31
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Most 727s are flown domestically in the USA with some flying in from the South and north. Only Private 727s with long range tanks fly the pond. Pretty easy to check that few out. The EU has 727s coming from all directions, especially Africa. Not hard to copy Air Algerie paint scheme and make it look like your going to Heathrow.
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2003, 01:12
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK, so how disruptive to the few existing operators would it be to ban all 727s from existing UK airspace - at least without the most exhaustive pre-flight planning and authorisations...?

And I realize that it may set a dangerous precedent once a country starts banning an aircraft type....
Golf Charlie Charlie is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2003, 02:24
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not so sure that is doable. Besides, they would then just steal a transponder from a similiar size aircraft(ie. 757) that is in for maintenance and fly as that airplane.
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2003, 02:28
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Med
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
747
I don't quite understand your comment about transponder...
It is not transmitting anything else except the code and altitude and code is entered by pilot.
Blues
bluesafrica is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.