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Judge: Passengers can sue TUI for Gerona 757 crash

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Judge: Passengers can sue TUI for Gerona 757 crash

Old 7th May 2003, 00:26
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Exclamation Judge: Passengers can sue TUI for Gerona 757 crash

In what has been described as a "landmark ruling" the passengers who sustained psychological injuries have been permitted to sue Thomson Holidays (TUI), but not the airline Britannia Airways which is protected under the 1929 Warsaw Convention.

Full story at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3003599.stm
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Old 7th May 2003, 01:54
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Interesting. I thought Brittania had a flawless safety record; I guess not.

I wonder why we as pilots are always driven or programmed to "complete the mission". Why can't we go-around or divert if necessary? We all want to reach our destination, but nobody wants to be involved in an accident. What a pity.

Shades of AA Little Rock in '99, USAir at Charlotte in '94, Delta at DFW in '85 and Eastern at JFK in '75. We'll never learn.
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Old 7th May 2003, 02:39
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B767300ER - Just curious, but do your comments mean that the official accident report has now been published? If so, do you know of a link so that I may read it?

If it hasn't been published, then might your assesment be considered a little "previous" as they say?
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Old 7th May 2003, 02:49
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AAIB Special Report S1/2000

A special report can be found at
www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/special/special.htm

The final Spanish report is awaited with interest.
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Old 7th May 2003, 02:55
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Remember working in ops the evening after the incident, horrible experience all round really.

B767-300 its amazing how quickly you leap to attack your fellow pilots, suggest you check out the preliminary report as the cause of this incident was far from clear cut.
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Old 7th May 2003, 02:57
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For info: the crew did a VOR approach to R02, followed by a GA, then made an ILS approach to R20 which resulted in a hard landing & subsequent accident. I believe it's also true the Capt was on his 2nd night duty, which may or may not be relevant. From personal experience, tower-reported weather at GRO is sometimes not updated frequently enough. There is no ATIS, no ILS on R02, no radar and a shortish runway with a significant slope. Not a nice place to go to at night with CBs all around.
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Old 7th May 2003, 03:12
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ecj - thanks, I'd already seen that one. It strikes me more as a statement of known facts, rather than an investigation with conclusions: That's why I was having difficulty understanding how...
we as pilots are always driven or programmed to "complete the mission". Why can't we go-around or divert if necessary? We all want to reach our destination, but nobody wants to be involved in an accident. What a pity.
Shades of AA Little Rock in '99, USAir at Charlotte in '94, Delta at DFW in '85 and Eastern at JFK in '75. We'll never learn.
Apologies if I'm being a bit spikey. The Capt involved flew me around safely many times, and it just seems to me that it would be wiser to wait for the report than to speculate, possibly incorrectly, against a man who may not deserve criticism. Just a thought!
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Old 7th May 2003, 04:04
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We all make mistakes, some of greater significance than others. Maybe this captain made a mistake on the night of the accident. What I would ask is that we all wait for the full and proper accident report before we rush to judge him. He was certainly one of the most highly regarded and respected captains I have met in over 40 years in aviation. I wish him peace of mind and happiness in his retirement.
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Old 7th May 2003, 04:06
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On that night

Hi,

I was on the flight behind that night, 15 mins b4 landing we were told of an incident in Gro.They were lucky.Someone must have been watching over them.
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Old 7th May 2003, 05:07
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I heard unofficially that the AAIB on reviewing the CVR commented that they had never heard a more professional flight operation when reviewing an incident.

PP
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Old 7th May 2003, 05:25
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Cool

Even if the Captain made a mistake better to learn from it and empathise, it may be one of us next time!

Too err is human.
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Old 7th May 2003, 05:45
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To forgive is not company policy!
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Old 7th May 2003, 07:00
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Cool

More fool the company!
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Old 7th May 2003, 07:39
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There are many unpublished facts still to be released amongst which is that during the flare in torrential rain, a lightning strike is thought to have extinguished all airfield lights - not an ideal position to be able to go around.

ATC at GRN were reticent with info - there is even a possibility that the runway lights to the reciprocal runway approach at GRN had not been switched i.e. no approach lights or PAPI's. The cloudbase was low and the ILS glide slope at GRN is not useable below decision ht.

It is highly likely that the accident report may find that the crew were not to blame under the circumstances. In any case, let us wait for the official report - no more armchair lawyers please.
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Old 7th May 2003, 10:06
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Notice I used the word "We" not the word "Them" to discribe get-home-itis; it has happened before and obviously continues to happen.

No fingers being pointed, just self-analysis; we all feel compelled to complete the 'mission' by getting into destination airport. I have had that view before, and I'm sure I'll be exposed to it again.

Good read 'The Black Box' by Nicholas Faith; an excerpt may be relevant:

"There comes a point where you have to stop operations or continue with certain precautions; every once in a while those precautions are'nt followed and we lose an airplane."

-----NTSB Investigator

In this case, thank goodness, no lives were lost.
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Old 7th May 2003, 17:17
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Please let us wait for the full report.
The Capt concerned was one of the best that it has been my privilege to fly with.
I too wish him peace of mind.
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Old 7th May 2003, 19:14
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Question Why so long?

Over three years after the accident, and there is still no official report? Why does it take so long? What is the cause of the delays? Is it the Spanish CIAIAC which is being tardy?

I would have thought that they have had more than enough time to review recordings, interview witnesses etc.

If the cause is something that is likely to occur again, then surely the sooner this is acknowleged, the better.


Interesting that the BBC claim that the aircraft -
was forced to land in a field
.

Makes it seem that this was in the back of beyond!
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Old 7th May 2003, 21:13
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Is it true it took 2 hours for the rescue services to get to the a/c?

I dont expect anything from the Spanish report also- they are probably getting the local mayor to form the report.
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Old 7th May 2003, 21:56
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Angry

Let's hope that this is overruled by a higher court... the only winners are the lawyers as it is in everybodies interest, specially ours, to get the aircraft back safely!

This is too much american style sueing people and we don't need it!
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Old 7th May 2003, 22:34
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The Times business section reports that the chairman of TUI Northern Europe resigned yesterday. Not necessarily connected of course....... but I always thought he seemed like a smart fella.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...671842,00.html

Last edited by crackerjack; 7th May 2003 at 22:45.
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