Could your pilot be drunk? Or just press fabrication?
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Moneyshot
I'm afraid you're a bit naive mate.......you've never worked for Gulf Air have you......5 yrs years ago a certain Capt. and F/O got a little carried away at lunchtime and although the Capt. had the wisdom not to put on his uniform for the evening departure to BAH the F/O showed up in the crew lobby of the former Excelsior ready for duty.....the cabin crew subsequently walked off the bus when they smelled the alcohol........both pilots were fired and the Captain who had been with the co. for at least 12years lost his entire pension...................
I'm afraid you're a bit naive mate.......you've never worked for Gulf Air have you......5 yrs years ago a certain Capt. and F/O got a little carried away at lunchtime and although the Capt. had the wisdom not to put on his uniform for the evening departure to BAH the F/O showed up in the crew lobby of the former Excelsior ready for duty.....the cabin crew subsequently walked off the bus when they smelled the alcohol........both pilots were fired and the Captain who had been with the co. for at least 12years lost his entire pension...................
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On a serious point on our lifestyle, from somebody who would never take risk of loosing ones career by turning up to work with even the smallest quantity of alcohol in the system. I would rather report after a couple of pints of the black stuff at lunch time, than finishing 6 days of early's with for example a GLA, EDI double.
Although I would be impaired by the alcohol, this would be nothing compared to the fatigue that some of us feel at the end of the week going to bed at a sensible time.
With the cut throat industry that we work in at the moment, the rostering has become so tight that .02mg of booze in the system is the least of our worries.
And they want to increase the number of hours that we do. I don't know about long haul but the limits for short haul are a bit to high enough anyway especially when people like O Danny Boy couldn't give a monkeys about asking you to brake the 900 hrs risking your licence.
Although I would be impaired by the alcohol, this would be nothing compared to the fatigue that some of us feel at the end of the week going to bed at a sensible time.
With the cut throat industry that we work in at the moment, the rostering has become so tight that .02mg of booze in the system is the least of our worries.
And they want to increase the number of hours that we do. I don't know about long haul but the limits for short haul are a bit to high enough anyway especially when people like O Danny Boy couldn't give a monkeys about asking you to brake the 900 hrs risking your licence.
As pilots we should be encouraging BALPA and the IPA to highlight the REAL issues that affect flight safety.
I was horrified to read recently that some operators now expect crews to self position in hired cars BEFORE a flying duty and that little account of this is being taken with respect to fatigue.
Just how long will it be before we have a fatigue/stress induced accident?
I was horrified to read recently that some operators now expect crews to self position in hired cars BEFORE a flying duty and that little account of this is being taken with respect to fatigue.
Just how long will it be before we have a fatigue/stress induced accident?
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The amounts this gentleman is "guilty" of having in his system are negligible, but no matter how much we wish to argue the rights and wrongs of the system that wrote the book about to be launched in his direction, thats the game we now realise we gotta play.
"Personal" failings will always grab the headlines, because everyone can relate to them and easily pick a side or a stance. "Systemic" failings are much more insidious; they are the real killers, the hidden dangers but because they are buried in procedure and hide-bound in the inertia of the organisations that nurture and support them they never get the exposure. And even if they do get the exposure, they don't have the "personal" element that someone who has visibly commited a simple human failing brings with them.
The book will be thrown, and much wailing and wringing of righteous hands will ensue. The same wailers and wringers will then sit by quietly and watch legislation be passed that will leave people legally fit to carry passengers when medically fatigued because it is commercially expedient to do so.
So who's more culpable? It's quite depressing really... anyway, my personal answer to these recent developments is simply to go completely teetotal downroute. Much easier than I thought, just flicking a switch really. That way, I am saved the stress of perhaps tripping over a kerb leaving the crew bus, then wondering for the next hour or so whether my 2 beers the night before have put me over some marginal limit. I'll still have the worry of natural levels though.
But then, it never was a "problem" for me, or for the 99.9% "INCLUDING" the gentleman trapped above. I have flown before on the very knife-edge of fatigue.. nearly, but not quite there, and know what that feels like, and that it ain't gonna get any better, only worse. There's the real story the press need to see, but they never will.. not till there's more than one smoking hole anyway; one is never enough for a systemic failing to be accepted as such.
Alien
"Personal" failings will always grab the headlines, because everyone can relate to them and easily pick a side or a stance. "Systemic" failings are much more insidious; they are the real killers, the hidden dangers but because they are buried in procedure and hide-bound in the inertia of the organisations that nurture and support them they never get the exposure. And even if they do get the exposure, they don't have the "personal" element that someone who has visibly commited a simple human failing brings with them.
The book will be thrown, and much wailing and wringing of righteous hands will ensue. The same wailers and wringers will then sit by quietly and watch legislation be passed that will leave people legally fit to carry passengers when medically fatigued because it is commercially expedient to do so.
So who's more culpable? It's quite depressing really... anyway, my personal answer to these recent developments is simply to go completely teetotal downroute. Much easier than I thought, just flicking a switch really. That way, I am saved the stress of perhaps tripping over a kerb leaving the crew bus, then wondering for the next hour or so whether my 2 beers the night before have put me over some marginal limit. I'll still have the worry of natural levels though.
But then, it never was a "problem" for me, or for the 99.9% "INCLUDING" the gentleman trapped above. I have flown before on the very knife-edge of fatigue.. nearly, but not quite there, and know what that feels like, and that it ain't gonna get any better, only worse. There's the real story the press need to see, but they never will.. not till there's more than one smoking hole anyway; one is never enough for a systemic failing to be accepted as such.
Alien
Last edited by Alien Shores; 6th Feb 2003 at 16:07.
MaximumPete
Your pop at the pilot in the Mercury article is probably justified but look carefully at the wording. Does "Midland pilot" mean he works for bmi British Midland or he lives/is based in the Midlands? If the former, the words "But the Midland pilot who contacted the Sunday Mercury and who works for a major British airline" would seem to be tautologous, assuming the journo knows what that means. Possibly the journo deliberately made it ambiguous to blacken the airline but leaving him a defence of the second meaning if they sue.
Your pop at the pilot in the Mercury article is probably justified but look carefully at the wording. Does "Midland pilot" mean he works for bmi British Midland or he lives/is based in the Midlands? If the former, the words "But the Midland pilot who contacted the Sunday Mercury and who works for a major British airline" would seem to be tautologous, assuming the journo knows what that means. Possibly the journo deliberately made it ambiguous to blacken the airline but leaving him a defence of the second meaning if they sue.
Breathaliser results
A couple of nights ago I was having trouble sleeping so at about 2am I took some Bach remedy (Three drops on the tounge) Looking on the label I found it had alcahol in it. Now, supposing I took some just before flying. If I was tested (or for that matter, if I was breathalised when driving) would it show me as being over the limits for Flight Crew?
Uncle Pete
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Digressing from the original thread I would STRONGLY recommend anyone who has on-going sleeping problems to consult his/her company doctor or AME.
I know a man who didn't.......................
MP
I know a man who didn't.......................
MP
