Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Go around and weather update 30Jan

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Go around and weather update 30Jan

Old 31st Jan 2003, 09:47
  #21 (permalink)  
Fil
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Love to know more about the A321 at 70 degrees bank at 400 ft.


We came in 10 mins later in an A319 and both Tower and Director were restating what had happened but to be honest the two of us kept wondering was it really 70 degrees at 400ft?

Anyone got any more info?

Well done to them for such a recovery.

...but I do remember seeing the fire trucks waiting by the runway edges.
Fil is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 10:01
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was doing Deps when the Swiss made his first and second attempts to land (stayed in the tower for the third to, just for mad). He did get a lot of rotor action at about four hundred feet, probably between forty and fifty degrees. However, he also got a bit of sink at the same time so it may have seemed worse from where he was!!

I was at work all yesterday evening and i've got to say, i know ATC bitches about pilots all the time, but yesterday was a good example of what you boys and girls CAN do and how there are times you earn your pennies and we only watch (and laugh/panic/cry...). There was great patience (mostly) to the GMP controllers and the poor SAS pilot who did an app to 27L after the de alternation was the bravest pilot i've ever seen (wind was 340 25 gust 35 - coming right off the hangers). He did well to get one set of gear down then back in the air!!

Once again, thanks guys.
Point Seven is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 10:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes - I wondered about that at the time! I was driving the VS24 just behind him leaving the hold when he was offered 27L so a braking action check could be carried out on 27R. We also thought he was brave! And we were very glad that you didn't ask us - you might not have liked the reply!
scroggs is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 10:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London,England
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Managed to be on a day off yesterday, there is a god after all. It's interesting now that the big BA hangar to the south of the complex has gone that 27L approaches in a stiff northerly are better than 27R in a strong southerly which can only have been made worse by the new Virgin hangar. Landed on 27L the day before (Wed) and after being suprised that it was in use was then suprised by how little trouble it was. That said, home felt like the place to be yesterday.
Max Angle is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 13:09
  #25 (permalink)  
VFE
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Danger

Bearing in mind the sort of everyday aviation incident that can make the headlines in the news these days I wonder why no reporter has picked up on 70 deg AOB at 400FT! Oh, yes I do.....it would probably take them 10 minutes to explain to Joe Public exactly why it was such a serious happening.

Obviously not as headline worthy as a go around due to traffic on runway......can't slip in the all important "near miss" soundbite can they?

Was it really as severe as 70 deg though? Sounds abit OTT IMVHO.

VFE.
VFE is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 13:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Red face

I was flying the Vir 901 which "landed" yesterday just before 1530. Brilliant timing, a blizzard had just arrived to add to the very strong crosswind from the north!
About 12 hours earlier I had briefef the other pilots that we would obviously be landing on the northerly, ie 27R, due to the totally predictable turbulance from the hangars with a northerly wind. On arrival at the hold at LAM I couldn't believe we were using 27L and therefore requested 27R, which was refused. Just before commencing the approach we were informed that there was severe turbulance and rotor streaming on finals - there's a surprise! Amazingly we didn't have to go around since I must confess I was expecting to have to do so but nevertheless a very uncomfortable approach. When will those in power realise that with strong cross winds at Heathrow the runway should be chosen appropriately to minimise turbulance, or worse, from the hangars? - No criticism intended of the controllers who seemed to be doing an admiral job in the conditions. (And yes I did file an ASR to highlight this recurring problem!)
bolts is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 13:39
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
bolts...

This was supposed to have been "sorted" after the BA jumbo excursion a year or 2 ago - albeit the other way around.

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/may02/gbdxp.htm

<<Recommendation 2002-07
It was recommended to Heathrow Airport Limited and to Heathrow Air Traffic Control that Runway 27 Left should be the nominated landing runway from the commencement of the promulgation of Runway 23 (three hours prior to start of Runway 23 operations). This will serve to minimise the use of Runway 27 Right during periods of strong south-westerly winds.

Response to safety recommendation 2002-07
In March and April 2002 respectively, Heathrow Air Traffic Control and Heathrow Airport Limited notified the AAIB that they would accept the safety recommendation.>>

Sounds like commonsense is not allowed to apply and reverse this latter idea when the wind is N - NW!

NoD
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 14:03
  #28 (permalink)  
Mental Floss Prevents Moral Decay
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sim City
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
and the poor SAS pilot who did an app to 27L after the de alternation was the bravest pilot i've ever seen (wind was 340 25 gust 35 - coming right off the hangers). He did well to get one set of gear down then back in the air!!
Swedish drivers are always considered to be the best (rally) drivers in snow/icy conditions
Kwasi_Mensa is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 15:03
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation 27LEFT and wind on 30th jan

so why they didn't switch to runway 23?
I heard the wind was even 340-350 gusting 38 or more...wasn't this sufficient to switch to runway 23 or it is just "the business must go on"??

Please reply here. Thanks.
ILS27LEFT is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 15:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
rw23

Using runway 23 would have given nearly a 30kt tailwind yesterday? Since they canít use 05 the 27ís were the closest into wind!
Go-arounder is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 15:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
runway 23

thanks for your reply
so with a northerly wind like yesterday what are the options for LHR? Just 27 R or L...nothing else.
Runway 5 is not a runway, but only 23 then.
Why 5 cannot be used? Is it something could be done in the future or just impossible because of lights, aids,buildings etc?
...so I understand not many options for LHR with a strong 360 wind: 27 only!

Thanks/

Does anybody know what the wind limits are for diverting all inbound LHR traffic, let's say a Northerly wind of...dir and speed pls/

I know it might depend on Aircraft Type too but is there a general standard, some sort of wind regulations for LHR that would affect all drivers?

Thank you.

P.S. I would expect for example if wind 360, gusting over 40K, then airport should be closed, if this runway 5 cannot be used for landing as said by others here!
Does this make sense?
Thanks.
ILS27LEFT is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 21:51
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ILS27LEFT this is really a subject for the 'Questions' forum, but I'll try and give you a brief answer. I'm sure various ATC chappies can elaborate if necessary.

The traffic levels at Heathrow are normally dependent on the parallel runways both operating. The use of 23 for landing traffic slows the operation down hugely. There is limited aircraft space on the ground, and those waiting in the air have limited endurance. Anything that slows down the system is A Bad Thing.

The winds yesterday favoured the 27s. 23 was never an option with winds from 330-350. The crosswind was never excessive, but it was very gusty at times. This does cause discomfort, and can produce windshear effects which may require some considerable skill to overcome (see the SAS tale above), but it's very rarely that the problems become so bad that closing the airfield would be considered. Most aircraft can take crosswinds of 30kts or more.

I don't believe that runway 05 is available at all.
scroggs is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 22:56
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Farnham, Surrey. ENGLAND
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Scroggs is correct - 05 de-commissioned years ago when the Whiskey stands were built - which is roughly where it's threshold was - you'd have to weave through the stand floodlighting now.
BLK 33 is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2003, 22:56
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
scroggs

Dear Scroggs,
Thanks a lot for your answer.
If any ATC chappies would like to elaborate this further would be more than welcome anyway.

Thanks a lot.
Ciao!
ILS27LEFT is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2003, 10:38
  #35 (permalink)  
DrKaos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hey guys,

A big thank you goes out to the BA driver who passed the very kind comment of "Doing a great job" to me on EGLL FIN (120.4) at about 1100. Although the weather wasn't as bad as the afternoon, a wind report from a Midland Airbus reported 355/65 at 4000'. Accurate tight spacing wasn't the issue, just trying to stop guys on base from the north from cleaning up stuff establishing from the south (who seemed to be going backwards sometimes). There were some bizarre speed instructions I know, but I'll try anything once!

Thank you again.


 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.