Ryanair-Capt's airside/Armed Forces ID bad-Student ID good (Merged)
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As has already been pointed out, Ryanair are the only carrier that appear to be insisting on this and adopting an inflexible approach.
It isn't anything to do with security as knowing somebodies name wouldn't stop somebody attempting a hi-jack.
Its just another excuse to bump people off the flight and sell the seat again. I'm convinced the staff actually enjoy doing this.
makes you wonder what ID their own positioning staff use?
It isn't anything to do with security as knowing somebodies name wouldn't stop somebody attempting a hi-jack.
Its just another excuse to bump people off the flight and sell the seat again. I'm convinced the staff actually enjoy doing this.
makes you wonder what ID their own positioning staff use?
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Simple answer don,t fly Ryanair ever under any circumstances,I did once DUB-LTN at my companies behest never again.They are now the only European airline we are forbidden to use for company travel on account of low standards in every area of their operation.Even by the standards of the other low quality operators they are dreadful.Don,t bookwith them and your much less likely to suffer disapointment/bad treatment. 
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WHAT THE F--- IS THE PROBLEM?
AS RYANAIR CREW WE NEED PHOTO ID TO TRAVEL ON A STAFF TICKET AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE OUR ID CARDS. BIG DEAL.
WE CAN DO IT BUT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IF YOU ARE FROM A UK COMPANY OR JUST THIS COUNTRY IT MUST BE AN ATTEMPT TO DEFRAUD YOU.
GROW UP.
PLENTY OF SWIPES AT RYR BUT I HAVE NO HESITATION PUTTING MY FAMILY ON OUR PLANES.
BEATS GETTING HARRASSED BY ALWAYS EXTREMELY ARROGANT STAFF AT B.A. AND OTHER UK COMPANIES.
YOU PEOPLE JUST MOAN A BIT TOO MUCH-
MUST BE THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN.
AS RYANAIR CREW WE NEED PHOTO ID TO TRAVEL ON A STAFF TICKET AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE OUR ID CARDS. BIG DEAL.
WE CAN DO IT BUT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IF YOU ARE FROM A UK COMPANY OR JUST THIS COUNTRY IT MUST BE AN ATTEMPT TO DEFRAUD YOU.
GROW UP.
PLENTY OF SWIPES AT RYR BUT I HAVE NO HESITATION PUTTING MY FAMILY ON OUR PLANES.
BEATS GETTING HARRASSED BY ALWAYS EXTREMELY ARROGANT STAFF AT B.A. AND OTHER UK COMPANIES.
YOU PEOPLE JUST MOAN A BIT TOO MUCH-
MUST BE THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN.
CRY HAVOC
After that amazing outburst above like something from the nursery, is there any wonder that the posters above, myself included, are so disgusted at the standards of service your airline give to your paying customers. I presume your attitude reflects that of your fellow Ryanair crew as well.
That’s the end of me or any of my staff using Ryanair, in the same way as Stampe describes above. Whatever would you be like in an aircraft emergency?
After that amazing outburst above like something from the nursery, is there any wonder that the posters above, myself included, are so disgusted at the standards of service your airline give to your paying customers. I presume your attitude reflects that of your fellow Ryanair crew as well.
That’s the end of me or any of my staff using Ryanair, in the same way as Stampe describes above. Whatever would you be like in an aircraft emergency?
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Ryanair I.D....Daft idea or what..!!
O.K, guys..
For what its worth..a few lines from me........................
Photo I.D being required by Ryanair, in my opinion is a good idea, but its the way its being implemented that is the problem. Here in Ireland, and as best I am aware, in the U.K, the company will not accept Police I.D as being valid for travel, yet they will accept a student card. I am aware of at least two students here in Ireland, who have obtained fake Student ID on the web in order to gain access to pubs etc etc.
Those working in the security area at any airport, will be very much aware of the amount of False / counterfeit driving Licences, passports, and other forms of I.D that are doing the rounds, yet..the company will not accept Police I.D...can someone / anyone explain this to me..?
The U.K government is currently studying a security system called "Borderguard" with a view to having all airlines entering the U.K using the system. The very basis of this system is that all passengers will provide photo I.D
Watch this space very carefully over the coming months..more and more airlines will be requiring photo I.D
One must remember, that for flights between the CTA (Common Travel area) between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom, citizens of either country do not need to carry passports with them, all other citizens however, do.
For what its worth..a few lines from me........................
Photo I.D being required by Ryanair, in my opinion is a good idea, but its the way its being implemented that is the problem. Here in Ireland, and as best I am aware, in the U.K, the company will not accept Police I.D as being valid for travel, yet they will accept a student card. I am aware of at least two students here in Ireland, who have obtained fake Student ID on the web in order to gain access to pubs etc etc.
Those working in the security area at any airport, will be very much aware of the amount of False / counterfeit driving Licences, passports, and other forms of I.D that are doing the rounds, yet..the company will not accept Police I.D...can someone / anyone explain this to me..?
The U.K government is currently studying a security system called "Borderguard" with a view to having all airlines entering the U.K using the system. The very basis of this system is that all passengers will provide photo I.D
Watch this space very carefully over the coming months..more and more airlines will be requiring photo I.D
One must remember, that for flights between the CTA (Common Travel area) between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom, citizens of either country do not need to carry passports with them, all other citizens however, do.
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WHBM I take objection to you labeling ALL Ryanair crew as unprofessional. I am one of those crew members and take the greatest pride in flying safely and to the best of my abilities. To insinuate that the pilots would be unable to cope with an emergency is tantermount to libel.
We all have to undergo sim checks, line checks etc etc and pass them to the same high standard as ANY airline low cost or not.
Am I to assume that you as an IT manager have never made a mistake and neither have any of your staff? If not, does that reflect all IT personnel?
With your GREAT experience in aviation as a fair weather PPL holder flying PA28s I think you need to wind your neck in and think a little before putting pen to paper, especialy as to peoples abilities in jobs you know little about.
We all have to undergo sim checks, line checks etc etc and pass them to the same high standard as ANY airline low cost or not.
Am I to assume that you as an IT manager have never made a mistake and neither have any of your staff? If not, does that reflect all IT personnel?
With your GREAT experience in aviation as a fair weather PPL holder flying PA28s I think you need to wind your neck in and think a little before putting pen to paper, especialy as to peoples abilities in jobs you know little about.
With your GREAT experience in aviation
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=76868
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As someone who works sometimes in security (Ok when asked I'll help in a nightclub - 3/4 times in last 6 months).
We ask for ID (mainly for age) in a lot of cases. There are several forged driving licences and National Age cards, and it has been simple for a long time to get forged ISICs (this is Dublin BTW. London used to be easy too back in 1990).
We stay up on the current state of play regarding what forgeries look like from the simple to the reasonably well-done.
Without prejudice to any checkin staff, with any airline I travel with including FR the photo-id check is cursory no matter what airport (Except transatlantic) . It's not their (checkin agents) job to know what the current generation of forgeries look like. They want to take your case and move on to the next punter.
However, The FR employee/handling agent cannot waive the condition without (probably) losing their employment, and MOL probably wouldn't. Reasonableness is not a hallmark of FR
As someone said - got airside by flashing their Costco discount card !
Just my $0.05
We ask for ID (mainly for age) in a lot of cases. There are several forged driving licences and National Age cards, and it has been simple for a long time to get forged ISICs (this is Dublin BTW. London used to be easy too back in 1990).
We stay up on the current state of play regarding what forgeries look like from the simple to the reasonably well-done.
Without prejudice to any checkin staff, with any airline I travel with including FR the photo-id check is cursory no matter what airport (Except transatlantic) . It's not their (checkin agents) job to know what the current generation of forgeries look like. They want to take your case and move on to the next punter.
However, The FR employee/handling agent cannot waive the condition without (probably) losing their employment, and MOL probably wouldn't. Reasonableness is not a hallmark of FR
As someone said - got airside by flashing their Costco discount card !
Just my $0.05
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WHBM I love your holyer than thou attitude, glad you never make mistakes. Just for the record I wasn't one of the pilots on that flight.
I just hope one of your 'foolproof' programs isnt installed on any aircraft I ever fly.
Stick to your PA28 it will be much safer for aviation in general.
I just hope one of your 'foolproof' programs isnt installed on any aircraft I ever fly.
Stick to your PA28 it will be much safer for aviation in general.
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Fabulous doggerel from the anti ryan loonies.Crazier than usual.
Lets try this again children!
(1)Fr req photo id at ticketless check in
(2)Only..ie ONLY (geddit fools) passport,drivers lic,or intl student
travel cards accepted.So no police id or anything else will do
(3)All pax agree to abide by these rules BEFORE booking
(4)Even homer confirms that Marge made his booking,so his prob
lies with Marge not Fr
(5)Every airline is perfectly entitled to make its own rules, and in
this case they couldnt be clearer!
(6)This rule is simple,and understand from sales guy in Stn this am
that student tvl card simply allows for kids in 16-20age grp
to tvl when might not have passport or driving licence.
(7)All other police,army,crews have passports so for gods sake
shut up and stop crying!
As for the other rantings of our loony friends may i reply;
Firestorm-min wage in Fr is irrelevant, ave pay in Fr is now higher
than Easy,Luft,BA,andEI.Smoke that!
Capt Max-all fr staff must produce passport or d licence and we do
without any of the moaning on pprune
Stampe-What low standards? We're No1 for on-times&pax growt
or maybe you know better than 15m pax?
WHBM-dont be disgusted for our paying customers.They grew
last month by 64%.Seems pax LOVE FR!
I never cease to be amazed why all you anti ryan clowns never
can explain why Fr and Easy keep growing like crazy whilst all you
lot can do is rant and rave. Pax vote with their feet. 64% growth
suggests that public have no prob with photo id,so again i beg you..... shut the f*** up if youve nothing sensible to say.
Lets try this again children!
(1)Fr req photo id at ticketless check in
(2)Only..ie ONLY (geddit fools) passport,drivers lic,or intl student
travel cards accepted.So no police id or anything else will do
(3)All pax agree to abide by these rules BEFORE booking
(4)Even homer confirms that Marge made his booking,so his prob
lies with Marge not Fr
(5)Every airline is perfectly entitled to make its own rules, and in
this case they couldnt be clearer!
(6)This rule is simple,and understand from sales guy in Stn this am
that student tvl card simply allows for kids in 16-20age grp
to tvl when might not have passport or driving licence.
(7)All other police,army,crews have passports so for gods sake
shut up and stop crying!
As for the other rantings of our loony friends may i reply;
Firestorm-min wage in Fr is irrelevant, ave pay in Fr is now higher
than Easy,Luft,BA,andEI.Smoke that!
Capt Max-all fr staff must produce passport or d licence and we do
without any of the moaning on pprune
Stampe-What low standards? We're No1 for on-times&pax growt
or maybe you know better than 15m pax?
WHBM-dont be disgusted for our paying customers.They grew
last month by 64%.Seems pax LOVE FR!
I never cease to be amazed why all you anti ryan clowns never
can explain why Fr and Easy keep growing like crazy whilst all you
lot can do is rant and rave. Pax vote with their feet. 64% growth
suggests that public have no prob with photo id,so again i beg you..... shut the f*** up if youve nothing sensible to say.
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Here, here ILUVTOFLY.
Reasoned sensible argument. A requirement is a requirement clearly stated and agreed to.
It would appear that the others would like auld Esther Ranzid on the case...
JAYSUS...
Reasoned sensible argument. A requirement is a requirement clearly stated and agreed to.
It would appear that the others would like auld Esther Ranzid on the case...
JAYSUS...
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I've no great lover of FR, but they state very clearly what their rules are and enforce them consistently.
We all have our own opinions about these rules, but the matter of fact is that a contract is formed with them embeded into the terms and conditions and the whole process is transparent.
If you don't like the approach, then you are perfectly entitled to vote with your feet (or mouse clicks.)
Easyjet once cancelled a flight on the day of operation, leaving my family and I at Palma, to sort out our own arrangements; they were quite entitled to do that too, it was in the terms and we received those before booking the flights.
At the end of the day, anyone entering freely into a contract should have made themselves aware of the rules before doing so - Caveat Emptor.
As a fairly regular FR user (based on convenience, not cost), I can't say that I really enjoy the experience, but also acknowledge they have always followed their t&cs to the letter. Also, not often mentioned here, the cabin crew are invariably friendly, if not always quite as polished as on the flag carriers.
It's my choice as to whether I travel with them and for the moment it suits me to do so. It's yoiur choice to use whoever you wish.
As a business consultant, I know that the price of flexibility is a heavy overhead for a business (far more expensive than might be imagined), so I would suggest that this is why it is lacking in a volume/discount model such as FR where running the sausage factory with the lowest cost base is obviously important.
So no whinging from me, just an acknowledgment that you get what you pay for and my last return ticket to Brussels was around GBP35 inc taxes, for peak time flights.
So once again, before I get flamed, I don't carry a torch for FR, but their approach in ID is straightforward and transparent and I cannot see any justification for attacking them for enforcing it consistently.
We all have our own opinions about these rules, but the matter of fact is that a contract is formed with them embeded into the terms and conditions and the whole process is transparent.
If you don't like the approach, then you are perfectly entitled to vote with your feet (or mouse clicks.)
Easyjet once cancelled a flight on the day of operation, leaving my family and I at Palma, to sort out our own arrangements; they were quite entitled to do that too, it was in the terms and we received those before booking the flights.
At the end of the day, anyone entering freely into a contract should have made themselves aware of the rules before doing so - Caveat Emptor.
As a fairly regular FR user (based on convenience, not cost), I can't say that I really enjoy the experience, but also acknowledge they have always followed their t&cs to the letter. Also, not often mentioned here, the cabin crew are invariably friendly, if not always quite as polished as on the flag carriers.
It's my choice as to whether I travel with them and for the moment it suits me to do so. It's yoiur choice to use whoever you wish.
As a business consultant, I know that the price of flexibility is a heavy overhead for a business (far more expensive than might be imagined), so I would suggest that this is why it is lacking in a volume/discount model such as FR where running the sausage factory with the lowest cost base is obviously important.
So no whinging from me, just an acknowledgment that you get what you pay for and my last return ticket to Brussels was around GBP35 inc taxes, for peak time flights.
So once again, before I get flamed, I don't carry a torch for FR, but their approach in ID is straightforward and transparent and I cannot see any justification for attacking them for enforcing it consistently.
Shining Example, apparently...
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DistantRumble - I disagree. Surely checkin agents are the first line of defence against fraudulent ID? They should be trained how to spot possible forgeries - at least as well as nightclub door staff 
- so that dubious cases can be referred upwards.
So, I'm with FR's checkin staff on this one. I'd agree that rejecting an airside ID seems strict, but subjectivity breeds loopholes. If you give staff the discretion to allow non-standard papers, you lose a lot of control. But it does seem odd to allow student ID.
- so that dubious cases can be referred upwards.So, I'm with FR's checkin staff on this one. I'd agree that rejecting an airside ID seems strict, but subjectivity breeds loopholes. If you give staff the discretion to allow non-standard papers, you lose a lot of control. But it does seem odd to allow student ID.
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Ryanair Photo ID
Is it not pretty obvious that Ryanairs poliocy has nothing to do whatsoever with security but is simply another way of boosting yield-revenue?
Having denied boarding to some unfortunate who has forgot or brought the wrong ID which in the recent past had been perfectly acceptable Ryanair will keep the cost of his ticket and then sell the same seat to another person who is on standby i.e. double revenue for one seat.In addition to that Ryanair will then probably collect a third fare when the poor unfortunate books on the next flight.
Good business practice eh?
Having denied boarding to some unfortunate who has forgot or brought the wrong ID which in the recent past had been perfectly acceptable Ryanair will keep the cost of his ticket and then sell the same seat to another person who is on standby i.e. double revenue for one seat.In addition to that Ryanair will then probably collect a third fare when the poor unfortunate books on the next flight.
Good business practice eh?
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Call me naive, but I think its more likely that Ryanair need to have clear rules that can be applied easily across different handling agents on their network.
To make their business model work, they have to process pax as efficiently as possible - building in the flexibility of a debate over the validity of ID does to achieve this. (Supervisor time costs too.)
Also, when dealing with personnel who are often transient (check in agents), thus requiring ongoing recruitment and induction, these simple guidelines aid learning and retention for people who may lack prior experience.
e.g. I had to politely point out recently, to a new and helpful check in agent handling another carrier, that the cabin crew would not be best pleased if she allocated row 1 to my small kids and I; she had completely forgotten the regulations about exit rows from training, which I guess is understandable if you are taking in a lot of new information and struggling to get up to speed in a fast moving environment.
Of course, if the scenario you describe occurs, Ryanair will benefit, but my guess is that keeping it simple across the whole network is the primary driver for the ID rules.
BTW, I have consulted on airline ground ops, so my speculation is based on some foundation.
Whatever the reason, the outcome is clear with low cost carriers - transgress at your own peril - but in fairness they state this clearly in the booking info and if people do not read it or choose to ignore it, then I fear the subsequent argument is rather one sided.
At the end of the day, quality of customer care is a given for any business model, but it will vary from one to the next.
FR compare very well to Wagn railway (where even 1st class ticket holders are not guaranteed a seat on the London commuter routes, but not so well to BA. Lufthansa etc!
Call me naive, but I think its more likely that Ryanair need to have clear rules that can be applied easily across different handling agents on their network.
To make their business model work, they have to process pax as efficiently as possible - building in the flexibility of a debate over the validity of ID does to achieve this. (Supervisor time costs too.)
Also, when dealing with personnel who are often transient (check in agents), thus requiring ongoing recruitment and induction, these simple guidelines aid learning and retention for people who may lack prior experience.
e.g. I had to politely point out recently, to a new and helpful check in agent handling another carrier, that the cabin crew would not be best pleased if she allocated row 1 to my small kids and I; she had completely forgotten the regulations about exit rows from training, which I guess is understandable if you are taking in a lot of new information and struggling to get up to speed in a fast moving environment.
Of course, if the scenario you describe occurs, Ryanair will benefit, but my guess is that keeping it simple across the whole network is the primary driver for the ID rules.
BTW, I have consulted on airline ground ops, so my speculation is based on some foundation.
Whatever the reason, the outcome is clear with low cost carriers - transgress at your own peril - but in fairness they state this clearly in the booking info and if people do not read it or choose to ignore it, then I fear the subsequent argument is rather one sided.
At the end of the day, quality of customer care is a given for any business model, but it will vary from one to the next.
FR compare very well to Wagn railway (where even 1st class ticket holders are not guaranteed a seat on the London commuter routes, but not so well to BA. Lufthansa etc!
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With regards to the original post regarding non-acceptance of airside ID, it is worth remembering that there is no standard airside ID card. Sure, most people would know what a BAA card looks like, but I haven't a clue what a PIK or DUB card looks like. I'm sure the majority of people with a PC could print out a genuine looking ID for a made-up airport, laminate it, and then argue with a check-in agent that it is a genuine ID card and if BAA ID cards are acceptable why is their card not.
By having a blanket rule, Ryanair are ensuring that they do not discriminate against any one person.
How many people know what an Eilat Airport ID card looks like?
By having a blanket rule, Ryanair are ensuring that they do not discriminate against any one person.
How many people know what an Eilat Airport ID card looks like?
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It's all well and good to say "these are the rules and they're stated very clearly, here, here and here", but the point is that Ryanair's photo ID policy is as much of a joke as the rest of their customer service. Why the hell should you have to use a passport for an internal flight on Ryanair when you don't on the national Flag Carrier. When I have used Ryanair in the past I have carried my passport through necessity and not choice. Then again Flag Carrier airlines aren't in the habit of bumping passengers off of flights for no good reason and keeping their money.
People who look after the interests of the UK like Police Officers and Military Personnel are told their IDs are not valid for carriage but some dodgy geezer who has ordered their International Student ID from the pages of FHM or Maxim is given no hassle.
It may be the rules but the rules are clearly WRONG, I will not fly with Ryanair again and neither will anybody who asks my opinion of them although I will visit STN for their help with an ongoing project of mine.
"The Bumper Book of Revenue Earning Excuses"
ps. for the attention of "ILUV2FLY", I am quite certain that there are plenty of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Policemen who do not have passports!!!!!
People who look after the interests of the UK like Police Officers and Military Personnel are told their IDs are not valid for carriage but some dodgy geezer who has ordered their International Student ID from the pages of FHM or Maxim is given no hassle.
It may be the rules but the rules are clearly WRONG, I will not fly with Ryanair again and neither will anybody who asks my opinion of them although I will visit STN for their help with an ongoing project of mine.
"The Bumper Book of Revenue Earning Excuses"
ps. for the attention of "ILUV2FLY", I am quite certain that there are plenty of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Policemen who do not have passports!!!!!
Last edited by pipersg; 9th Jan 2003 at 07:59.
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Pipersg
Because it is in Ryanair's terms and conditions that you agree to when you make a contract with them (i.e. buy flights) and
The Flag Carrier's terms are different.
Airlines are businesses and they choose to operate in a way that suits their business model.
These business models are different to each other and this is reflected in the levels of service and the customer experience.
You have decided that you do not like this approach and will not use it anymore.
If a significant number of pax take your view and Ryanair's business is impacted, then they may change the model.
However, until then, what you see (in a t&c sense) is what you get, no matter how irritating!
Why the hell should you have to use a passport for an internal flight on Ryanair when you don't on the national Flag Carrier.
The Flag Carrier's terms are different.
Airlines are businesses and they choose to operate in a way that suits their business model.
These business models are different to each other and this is reflected in the levels of service and the customer experience.
You have decided that you do not like this approach and will not use it anymore.
If a significant number of pax take your view and Ryanair's business is impacted, then they may change the model.
However, until then, what you see (in a t&c sense) is what you get, no matter how irritating!
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I'm no anti Ryan basher. But FR are the only airline who carries this photo ID thing to extremes, no doubt for their own reasons. Including the well known episode when they refused to let someone on board after a well publicised family tragedy.
No other airline seems to have this problem therefore it is self inflicted bad publicity and frankly Ryanair deserve all the criticism they get.
It's worth pointing out that the potential (allegedly) hijacker in Sweden would have no trouble getting on board because of course he had his passport alongside the gun in his hand luggage. So much for photo ID security.
On another point, part of the problem for UK passengers is the lack of a photo ID driving licence now normal all over the world including 'The land of the Free'. Yet Britain still clings on the notion that photo ID is some threat to freedom or whatever. You wouldn't need a passport for internal flights then.
They're easily faked as well. Just how long would it take to make up a false driving licence from the principality of Ruratania complete with endorsements for driving horseless carriages,double decker buses and donkey carts. And just how many check in staff would realize that there is no such place as Ruratania? Did you??????
No other airline seems to have this problem therefore it is self inflicted bad publicity and frankly Ryanair deserve all the criticism they get.
It's worth pointing out that the potential (allegedly) hijacker in Sweden would have no trouble getting on board because of course he had his passport alongside the gun in his hand luggage. So much for photo ID security.
On another point, part of the problem for UK passengers is the lack of a photo ID driving licence now normal all over the world including 'The land of the Free'. Yet Britain still clings on the notion that photo ID is some threat to freedom or whatever. You wouldn't need a passport for internal flights then.
They're easily faked as well. Just how long would it take to make up a false driving licence from the principality of Ruratania complete with endorsements for driving horseless carriages,double decker buses and donkey carts. And just how many check in staff would realize that there is no such place as Ruratania? Did you??????