To scab or not to scab in Cathay, that's the question !
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To scab or not to scab in Cathay, that's the question !
To scab or not to scab in Cathay that's the question !
When the 'veil' of who's who, is lifted by Cathay Management at 00:01 hours local time in Hong Kong on the 1st of August the 'future shock' will be in the office and its bearers of the Cathay pilot's union (Association). The least shocked will be the world's contract pilots and certainly Cathay Management who know the way pilots think.
The rhetoric that's been driven hard by the Cathay 'resistance' pilots on pprune is exactly the same sort of blind madness that the lads on 'Go Around' the AFAP's daily rag in 89 used to send to all the troops "keep them running over the cliffs come hell what may". The blinded passion being shown by the Cathay pilot group is exactly the same perilous path that we all took in 89, the head in the sand all the way mentality and TODAYsadly to say "its all over as there is now, no dispute" (Bob Hawke 25th Aug 89 - The Day After!) for the Cathay pilots dispute.
The Cathay blokes have so terribly misread history of modern company resolve together with City Hall (News Ltd's Wapping UK journo strike of the mid 80's or Reagan's PATCO stitch-up even Continental as well as 89 just to start with) and the CX-ppruners are so to the opposite of the scale of their own fellow Cathay colleagues silent majority who I've being seeing throughout this dispute. Just about all the CX-Aussies will sign the letters to the company, if not already done so then cretainly within the next 24 hours, they all know that the company has won and they know they are still one of the few and unrealistically best paid pilots left in the world airline industry. They know only too well that contract pilots are the way of the future and that contract captains earn less than the Cathay first officers don't even talk about accommodation, schooling, free medical, best pubs to stay in on lay-overs etc etc etc as the contract pilots would have to get out a dictionary to read up on those meanings.
The Cathay pilot's association have to be honest to themselves and accept the fact that their 54 colleagues are finished and that no Asian company or manager will be prepared to lose face for these sacrificial lambs especially in the eyes of their "own" Hong Kong business folk and in front of ALL the Cathay staff. The press are doing such a great job at reminding the public as to the facts that HK citizens are contemptuous to the CX pilots but more worrisome, so are ALL the Cathay staff (ask the UK staff) there's no way in the world that the 54 boys are coming home guys, its finished, tell them to get out those flight magazines guys, sorry but join the club.
The Cathay pilot, is now in a serious dilemma, as already, he is considered a "Claytons scab" amongst all of us, as they are flying whilst their 54 sacked buddies commence the realization that they are back into the real world of aviation, bloody hard contract work for very little pay and zilch conditions with a 3 months contract to live on (contract by notice is how we are all employed, upset anyone and you're out i.e. "shut up and fly, mister") for the REST of their flying careers.
The Cathay resistance pilot group talk all along about principles and loyalty, if they really believed their cheap jingoism then these Cathay pilots should not be flying whilst their colleagues have fallen but more to the point as of the 1st of August there WILL BE NO DISPUTE (thanks Hawkie) so will the Cathay pilots continue to fly?
Sure will ("gangway gentlemen, please, I'm in a hurry" say the current 89er's in CX).
And the company knows that only too well, because pilots are the easiest group of workers to split, look up in the sky and you'll see many thousands of contract pilots from all over the world highly experienced and qualified who are all perched on the H.K telegraph poles with shoulders crouched over, beaks dripping, for the 89 syndrome to take its final act in Hong Kong, they are all awaiting the first Friday of August's Flight Magazine back page where Cathay are looking for direct entry 330 340 777 747 Captains and F/O's and yes, please be assured there are thousands who will swoop down and walk in the door to fly for Cathay and immediately mind you. And all these folk will be only too acceptable to the Cathay Flight Ops department and the HK CAA regarding experience and licensing and ease for the purposes of "fast tracking".
The Cathay pilots must surely be aware of the numerous after dinner-evening cigars and 'complimentary' Cathay duty free Remy Martin VSOP that old Dave has had with Rod in BA, Geoff in Qantas, Sir Rupert out of his local HK office and asked "Geoff and Rod what should I do with my pilots, how did you guys "fix" the Aussie pilots?", "what's your recommendation Rupert, how can you help me with your past experiences with "fixing" problem unions and setting up a smear campaign, how would you resolve it?" OR try some "Dear Mr. HK and Mr. Very Honorable Beijing Government's, can you support our shareholders in our glorious airline, if I get rid of all the Cathay pilots and rebuild like the foreign devils did to themselves in the past, can you think about a system to FAST TRACKING FOREIGN LICENCES, H.K RESIDENCE AND WORKING VISAS for new captains and first officers from all over the world please?" Doesn't this all seem rather familiar guys?
The totality of the Chinese people in HK/Mainland and the pilots in their own airlines' have some very different views on the way they see the Cathay "problem" (that being the "foreign" pilots of CX themselves causin 1# embaressment 2# greed by foreigners as compared to holding up their own airline a Chinese owned airline) as compared to how the "foreigners" (Cathay pilots) see it!
The Cathay pilot's dilemma is even greater than ever before and is snowballing day by day, as the same CX-ppruners that berated the ASL pilots over the last 4 years with astounding rhetoric about being low class whores and scabs and these same CX pilots with so called "professionalism" displayed open contempt to the ASL pilots in the Cathay crew room, crew bus, hotels, dead heading etc now find themselves flying over their own 54 fallen angels careers already we're seeing the "justification" of the new commands and current employment acceptance in the last week on pprune, hey guys its us you're talking to. No matter how the Cathay pilots stack it up, they are already busting the very essence of unionism - something about, one for all and all for one or such like. But hey, pilots are pilots. They're just like cabbies and its every person ("whore?") for one's self.
For an analogy of hypocrisy then surely the current crop of Cathay pilots talking about scabs and as to what they themselves are actually doing by currently flying, getting paid, grabbing the commands shortly on offer, certainly sets a pretty good example. Remember boys the word scab is an Americanism from the 18th century Appalachian coal mines…..SCAB - Still Continuing All Benefits - be careful with the rhetoric guys.
Rest assured guys and be very very clear, Cathay is determined to go right through with this and rebuild if necessary just like the two Australian airlines did and the Aussie airlines (and the scabs) never looked back since. Likewise Cathay Management will do the same, for a short-term pain they will fast track and rebuild all within 3 to 6 months its that simple and easy.
More importantly the Cathay pilots need to know that there's a Hoover Dam wall of pilots who are ready to start tomorrow morning in HK and all highly qualified, hopefully the Cathay pilots will not be under the old fifties and sixties illusion that Cathay Management will only employ their current pilots because their the "right sort" and "the chosen people".
The very notion of the "right" sort of pilot is a thing of the past, as they were once the only 'acceptable sort of pilot' that would "fit in" to their Royal Empire Flying Boat Squadron in HK. The Cathay pilots are in for a seriously rude awakening next week and should be prepared to see very good pilots from around the world in all shapes, sizes and colours as direct entry captains and first officers into Cathay Pacific Airways from Central & South America, North Africa, the Med, Gulf, Indians and Pakistani's and the current abundance of experienced Sri Lankan 330/340 pilots. Apart from all the usual suspects i.e New Zealanders, South Africans, Aussies, Zimbabweans, good old USA and Canadians. Don't be fooled guys, 3rd world airline pilots are very very sharp and can match anyone down on procedures,SOPs, by the 'book' and simple flying, you should see where these blokes fly into and with what, year after year after year, without the nice home comforts of flight watch and infrastructure that mother Cathay provides let alone all the dough!! Sure they mightn't have the fancy Eaton accents with cravat and reefer jackets "hey I say old bean" but they sure as hell can help rebuild Cathay overnight and Management know it only too well with the Flight Department's acceptance and being only too happy with the caliber of professionals that all these guys bring into CX let alone with a savings in costs to go with it. Cathay can be like any other world airline full of contract pilots at half the cost of the current offer on the table to the Cathay pilots.
Did I read or hear someone in the Cathay pilot group in pprune the other day say "Cathay have to pay for quality!" - excuse me for a moment whilst 35,000 contract pilots spray their beers in laughter - what utter conceit guys, come on. Take a look at Heathrow, Frankfurt and JFK for example and see the Nigerians, Ghanaians, Arabs, Moroccans, Mexicans, Brazilians, Chinese, Japs, Indons, Indian sub continent, Turks, Greeks etc operating on all sorts of heavy metal they seem to be coping with their own capabilities quite well, thank you very much and don't just think that they're all flying within their own national airlines which they're not. These good folk are in major International airlines such as SIA, Emirates Gulf Air, BA Air France KLM QANTAS and Ansett, these top airlines, as an example, seem to get over this ill conceived colonial attitude quite well and as of the 1st August so will Cathay.
Cathay management have now played a superb masterstroke, by now two timing the Cathay pilots Association, one has to give then ten out of ten. The pens are frantic tonight in Hong Kong I'm sure, the association has badly misread their own pilot body.
But the real question at the end of the day is to scab or not to scab? Well discounting the small 'resistance' rhetoric of the Cathay wharfies and the old adage of "to maintain the rage" the answer is undoubtedly YES. Just ask the wives and families especially an 89'er missus.
Compare us bums flying contract work to our once best of friends who scabbed on us in 89, if you manage to ask them how's their lot, you first would have to wait for a moment whilst they moor their 40 footer next to their parked BMW in 'Pacific Waters' the Gold Coast's best area to live it up (and he's only on a 737 for Christ sake!). Do they care about me flying my rear end of for $7,500 per month in some sleaze hole in the worlds aviation bowels, because I kept my principles, oh hello "NO WAY FORGET IT"…..and for what I can pass on to any Cathay pilot is your loyalty is to your family and your company, as Cathay will continue paying Noddyland salaries and conditions compared to all of us with our tongues pressed against the window and snow falling on our rags looking into the last of the Royal Empire Flying Boat pilots club, watching them rubbing hands against the fire of fat pay cheques AND not forgetting HK accommodation, school fees, great working conditions etc etc.
Being an ex-Ansett operator for 14 years of hell bent 'company loyalty' and end up flying in the Mid East and now in Europe on the 320 and now the 330 I am quite at ease with myself to apply for a direct position in Cathay should I see the ad. Every single 330 757 320 767 737 pilot in my airline and mates airlines here in the UK who are majority non UK and many Aussie and Kiwis will be on the phone to start in HK the next morning. We can all, very easily handle being called a scab even if Cathay pay half the going offer and a bit of "reasonable' accommodation we would be all flying the line in Cathay within 4 to 6 weeks like the contract world of pilots do from airline to airline. With the current pay and conditions of Cathay being offered by the company we would be mad not to come over. I know for a fact that we would be killed in the rush by the 89'ers etc in SIA, Emirates, Gulf Air Saudia blokes and others as we all want to be able to go home once or twice a month, instead of once a year like we have been doing since 89. My loyalty cost me too much 12 years ago, if the Cathay pilots can't see what a good wicket they're on then they've only got themselves to blame when we all come in to replace the rebels.
Don't pile on the venom to me like you have on poor retired 411A and others, as we seem to all be talking the truth to you all and which, Cathay resistance pilots, seem to have forgotten all notion of reality, don't shoot the messengers please guys, we're all actually trying to give you sound advice, I'm sure you might all be surprised to see an 89'er prepared to scab in CX, but I'm sorry to tell you that I'm not the only 89'er that will. Many 89'ers out here in contract-land are all hoping that Dave Turnbull will place his 'ad' in the Flight Mag, Like other ppruners, I'm just trying to forewarn Cathay pilots that you have lost your battle it was simply insanity what you guys were even contemplating of doing in this day and age, especially with a slowing world economy (bad timing guys real bad) and now just go and accept, RIGHT NOW, sign up otherwise you will end up on the pile heap like we have all paid, we can only go up, you guys can only go down.
But you do realise don't you, that as you are all signing up behind the association's back tonight, you are turning into midnight pumpkin scabs yourselves like the way the rest of the world is going, sorry but its that simple, be smart and sign up, if not for your sake then for your families, don't blame us blokes if we come in and fly with you as we will all be scabs in arms. I trust the CX-pilots who heaped it on the ASL blokes will do the right thing and of course NOT sign up, principles gentlemen please, principles.
Sorry to write the simple truth.
When the 'veil' of who's who, is lifted by Cathay Management at 00:01 hours local time in Hong Kong on the 1st of August the 'future shock' will be in the office and its bearers of the Cathay pilot's union (Association). The least shocked will be the world's contract pilots and certainly Cathay Management who know the way pilots think.
The rhetoric that's been driven hard by the Cathay 'resistance' pilots on pprune is exactly the same sort of blind madness that the lads on 'Go Around' the AFAP's daily rag in 89 used to send to all the troops "keep them running over the cliffs come hell what may". The blinded passion being shown by the Cathay pilot group is exactly the same perilous path that we all took in 89, the head in the sand all the way mentality and TODAYsadly to say "its all over as there is now, no dispute" (Bob Hawke 25th Aug 89 - The Day After!) for the Cathay pilots dispute.
The Cathay blokes have so terribly misread history of modern company resolve together with City Hall (News Ltd's Wapping UK journo strike of the mid 80's or Reagan's PATCO stitch-up even Continental as well as 89 just to start with) and the CX-ppruners are so to the opposite of the scale of their own fellow Cathay colleagues silent majority who I've being seeing throughout this dispute. Just about all the CX-Aussies will sign the letters to the company, if not already done so then cretainly within the next 24 hours, they all know that the company has won and they know they are still one of the few and unrealistically best paid pilots left in the world airline industry. They know only too well that contract pilots are the way of the future and that contract captains earn less than the Cathay first officers don't even talk about accommodation, schooling, free medical, best pubs to stay in on lay-overs etc etc etc as the contract pilots would have to get out a dictionary to read up on those meanings.
The Cathay pilot's association have to be honest to themselves and accept the fact that their 54 colleagues are finished and that no Asian company or manager will be prepared to lose face for these sacrificial lambs especially in the eyes of their "own" Hong Kong business folk and in front of ALL the Cathay staff. The press are doing such a great job at reminding the public as to the facts that HK citizens are contemptuous to the CX pilots but more worrisome, so are ALL the Cathay staff (ask the UK staff) there's no way in the world that the 54 boys are coming home guys, its finished, tell them to get out those flight magazines guys, sorry but join the club.
The Cathay pilot, is now in a serious dilemma, as already, he is considered a "Claytons scab" amongst all of us, as they are flying whilst their 54 sacked buddies commence the realization that they are back into the real world of aviation, bloody hard contract work for very little pay and zilch conditions with a 3 months contract to live on (contract by notice is how we are all employed, upset anyone and you're out i.e. "shut up and fly, mister") for the REST of their flying careers.
The Cathay resistance pilot group talk all along about principles and loyalty, if they really believed their cheap jingoism then these Cathay pilots should not be flying whilst their colleagues have fallen but more to the point as of the 1st of August there WILL BE NO DISPUTE (thanks Hawkie) so will the Cathay pilots continue to fly?
Sure will ("gangway gentlemen, please, I'm in a hurry" say the current 89er's in CX).
And the company knows that only too well, because pilots are the easiest group of workers to split, look up in the sky and you'll see many thousands of contract pilots from all over the world highly experienced and qualified who are all perched on the H.K telegraph poles with shoulders crouched over, beaks dripping, for the 89 syndrome to take its final act in Hong Kong, they are all awaiting the first Friday of August's Flight Magazine back page where Cathay are looking for direct entry 330 340 777 747 Captains and F/O's and yes, please be assured there are thousands who will swoop down and walk in the door to fly for Cathay and immediately mind you. And all these folk will be only too acceptable to the Cathay Flight Ops department and the HK CAA regarding experience and licensing and ease for the purposes of "fast tracking".
The Cathay pilots must surely be aware of the numerous after dinner-evening cigars and 'complimentary' Cathay duty free Remy Martin VSOP that old Dave has had with Rod in BA, Geoff in Qantas, Sir Rupert out of his local HK office and asked "Geoff and Rod what should I do with my pilots, how did you guys "fix" the Aussie pilots?", "what's your recommendation Rupert, how can you help me with your past experiences with "fixing" problem unions and setting up a smear campaign, how would you resolve it?" OR try some "Dear Mr. HK and Mr. Very Honorable Beijing Government's, can you support our shareholders in our glorious airline, if I get rid of all the Cathay pilots and rebuild like the foreign devils did to themselves in the past, can you think about a system to FAST TRACKING FOREIGN LICENCES, H.K RESIDENCE AND WORKING VISAS for new captains and first officers from all over the world please?" Doesn't this all seem rather familiar guys?
The totality of the Chinese people in HK/Mainland and the pilots in their own airlines' have some very different views on the way they see the Cathay "problem" (that being the "foreign" pilots of CX themselves causin 1# embaressment 2# greed by foreigners as compared to holding up their own airline a Chinese owned airline) as compared to how the "foreigners" (Cathay pilots) see it!
The Cathay pilot's dilemma is even greater than ever before and is snowballing day by day, as the same CX-ppruners that berated the ASL pilots over the last 4 years with astounding rhetoric about being low class whores and scabs and these same CX pilots with so called "professionalism" displayed open contempt to the ASL pilots in the Cathay crew room, crew bus, hotels, dead heading etc now find themselves flying over their own 54 fallen angels careers already we're seeing the "justification" of the new commands and current employment acceptance in the last week on pprune, hey guys its us you're talking to. No matter how the Cathay pilots stack it up, they are already busting the very essence of unionism - something about, one for all and all for one or such like. But hey, pilots are pilots. They're just like cabbies and its every person ("whore?") for one's self.
For an analogy of hypocrisy then surely the current crop of Cathay pilots talking about scabs and as to what they themselves are actually doing by currently flying, getting paid, grabbing the commands shortly on offer, certainly sets a pretty good example. Remember boys the word scab is an Americanism from the 18th century Appalachian coal mines…..SCAB - Still Continuing All Benefits - be careful with the rhetoric guys.
Rest assured guys and be very very clear, Cathay is determined to go right through with this and rebuild if necessary just like the two Australian airlines did and the Aussie airlines (and the scabs) never looked back since. Likewise Cathay Management will do the same, for a short-term pain they will fast track and rebuild all within 3 to 6 months its that simple and easy.
More importantly the Cathay pilots need to know that there's a Hoover Dam wall of pilots who are ready to start tomorrow morning in HK and all highly qualified, hopefully the Cathay pilots will not be under the old fifties and sixties illusion that Cathay Management will only employ their current pilots because their the "right sort" and "the chosen people".
The very notion of the "right" sort of pilot is a thing of the past, as they were once the only 'acceptable sort of pilot' that would "fit in" to their Royal Empire Flying Boat Squadron in HK. The Cathay pilots are in for a seriously rude awakening next week and should be prepared to see very good pilots from around the world in all shapes, sizes and colours as direct entry captains and first officers into Cathay Pacific Airways from Central & South America, North Africa, the Med, Gulf, Indians and Pakistani's and the current abundance of experienced Sri Lankan 330/340 pilots. Apart from all the usual suspects i.e New Zealanders, South Africans, Aussies, Zimbabweans, good old USA and Canadians. Don't be fooled guys, 3rd world airline pilots are very very sharp and can match anyone down on procedures,SOPs, by the 'book' and simple flying, you should see where these blokes fly into and with what, year after year after year, without the nice home comforts of flight watch and infrastructure that mother Cathay provides let alone all the dough!! Sure they mightn't have the fancy Eaton accents with cravat and reefer jackets "hey I say old bean" but they sure as hell can help rebuild Cathay overnight and Management know it only too well with the Flight Department's acceptance and being only too happy with the caliber of professionals that all these guys bring into CX let alone with a savings in costs to go with it. Cathay can be like any other world airline full of contract pilots at half the cost of the current offer on the table to the Cathay pilots.
Did I read or hear someone in the Cathay pilot group in pprune the other day say "Cathay have to pay for quality!" - excuse me for a moment whilst 35,000 contract pilots spray their beers in laughter - what utter conceit guys, come on. Take a look at Heathrow, Frankfurt and JFK for example and see the Nigerians, Ghanaians, Arabs, Moroccans, Mexicans, Brazilians, Chinese, Japs, Indons, Indian sub continent, Turks, Greeks etc operating on all sorts of heavy metal they seem to be coping with their own capabilities quite well, thank you very much and don't just think that they're all flying within their own national airlines which they're not. These good folk are in major International airlines such as SIA, Emirates Gulf Air, BA Air France KLM QANTAS and Ansett, these top airlines, as an example, seem to get over this ill conceived colonial attitude quite well and as of the 1st August so will Cathay.
Cathay management have now played a superb masterstroke, by now two timing the Cathay pilots Association, one has to give then ten out of ten. The pens are frantic tonight in Hong Kong I'm sure, the association has badly misread their own pilot body.
But the real question at the end of the day is to scab or not to scab? Well discounting the small 'resistance' rhetoric of the Cathay wharfies and the old adage of "to maintain the rage" the answer is undoubtedly YES. Just ask the wives and families especially an 89'er missus.
Compare us bums flying contract work to our once best of friends who scabbed on us in 89, if you manage to ask them how's their lot, you first would have to wait for a moment whilst they moor their 40 footer next to their parked BMW in 'Pacific Waters' the Gold Coast's best area to live it up (and he's only on a 737 for Christ sake!). Do they care about me flying my rear end of for $7,500 per month in some sleaze hole in the worlds aviation bowels, because I kept my principles, oh hello "NO WAY FORGET IT"…..and for what I can pass on to any Cathay pilot is your loyalty is to your family and your company, as Cathay will continue paying Noddyland salaries and conditions compared to all of us with our tongues pressed against the window and snow falling on our rags looking into the last of the Royal Empire Flying Boat pilots club, watching them rubbing hands against the fire of fat pay cheques AND not forgetting HK accommodation, school fees, great working conditions etc etc.
Being an ex-Ansett operator for 14 years of hell bent 'company loyalty' and end up flying in the Mid East and now in Europe on the 320 and now the 330 I am quite at ease with myself to apply for a direct position in Cathay should I see the ad. Every single 330 757 320 767 737 pilot in my airline and mates airlines here in the UK who are majority non UK and many Aussie and Kiwis will be on the phone to start in HK the next morning. We can all, very easily handle being called a scab even if Cathay pay half the going offer and a bit of "reasonable' accommodation we would be all flying the line in Cathay within 4 to 6 weeks like the contract world of pilots do from airline to airline. With the current pay and conditions of Cathay being offered by the company we would be mad not to come over. I know for a fact that we would be killed in the rush by the 89'ers etc in SIA, Emirates, Gulf Air Saudia blokes and others as we all want to be able to go home once or twice a month, instead of once a year like we have been doing since 89. My loyalty cost me too much 12 years ago, if the Cathay pilots can't see what a good wicket they're on then they've only got themselves to blame when we all come in to replace the rebels.
Don't pile on the venom to me like you have on poor retired 411A and others, as we seem to all be talking the truth to you all and which, Cathay resistance pilots, seem to have forgotten all notion of reality, don't shoot the messengers please guys, we're all actually trying to give you sound advice, I'm sure you might all be surprised to see an 89'er prepared to scab in CX, but I'm sorry to tell you that I'm not the only 89'er that will. Many 89'ers out here in contract-land are all hoping that Dave Turnbull will place his 'ad' in the Flight Mag, Like other ppruners, I'm just trying to forewarn Cathay pilots that you have lost your battle it was simply insanity what you guys were even contemplating of doing in this day and age, especially with a slowing world economy (bad timing guys real bad) and now just go and accept, RIGHT NOW, sign up otherwise you will end up on the pile heap like we have all paid, we can only go up, you guys can only go down.
But you do realise don't you, that as you are all signing up behind the association's back tonight, you are turning into midnight pumpkin scabs yourselves like the way the rest of the world is going, sorry but its that simple, be smart and sign up, if not for your sake then for your families, don't blame us blokes if we come in and fly with you as we will all be scabs in arms. I trust the CX-pilots who heaped it on the ASL blokes will do the right thing and of course NOT sign up, principles gentlemen please, principles.
Sorry to write the simple truth.
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Whether or not our friend above speaks the truth, he/she is quite obviously right about one thing: he/she speaks simply. So simply, in fact, that one wonders whether this individual ever went beyond a primary school education.
If this person actually holds an ATPL it occurs to me that someone else must have passed the examinations for him/her. Either that or the licensing authority in question ought to be challenged as to its apparent incompetence.
God save us all if persons the calibre and competence of this one are in reality poling our airliners around the world.
Or is it that I am just becoming too old ... ?
If this person actually holds an ATPL it occurs to me that someone else must have passed the examinations for him/her. Either that or the licensing authority in question ought to be challenged as to its apparent incompetence.
God save us all if persons the calibre and competence of this one are in reality poling our airliners around the world.
Or is it that I am just becoming too old ... ?
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all scabbed up, I am afraid I must disagree with you. Inside info tells me that 1100 of the 1300 pilots have signed the rejection letter. Granted some of them may be taking the sneaky option offered by the company but after they see such numbers I am sure a few will get the courage to recind the hidden doc given to the company. While I have no doubt that numerous more sackings will result and possibly mass postings of new jobs to contract pilots, your senerio of events comes now to a grinding halt because there are very few C+Trng guys who have not backed the AOA stance....so who are to train your Black Knights ? I know all said the same with the advent of ASL but this little stouch is not in the same league as previous.
On second thoughts I do not beleive such black sentiments are those of a '89er ... least not the ones I knew ... I'll leave it there least I get angry and call you nasty names....@&%$#^^%$*&( !
On second thoughts I do not beleive such black sentiments are those of a '89er ... least not the ones I knew ... I'll leave it there least I get angry and call you nasty names....@&%$#^^%$*&( !
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a_s_u
Interesting post, and nearly on the mark IMHO. Suspect however that the "don't confuse us with facts, our minds are make up" crowd at the HKAOA will look upon it with disdain...until the advertisements appear in Flight International.
Interesting post, and nearly on the mark IMHO. Suspect however that the "don't confuse us with facts, our minds are make up" crowd at the HKAOA will look upon it with disdain...until the advertisements appear in Flight International.
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All Scabbed Up:
Your point is well made and easily understood. It's a dog eat dog phenomena in this crazy business and it will repeat over and over.
But there are exceptions to the rule and one was the most recent 3 month strike at Comair.
Much to the astonishment of the U.S. airline community, this strike was airtight! No scabs had emerged in this brutal tug of nerves. The airline management was stopped dead in its tracks because it couldn't move a single airplane.
The CX pilot group could have learned something from those Comair (Delta Connection) pilots: Stick together like superglue.
If all the CX pilots had supported their 54 fallen comrades and stayed off the job, the public and stockholder pressure on CX management to bargain in good faith would have been overwhelming.
There are no desperate situations, only desperate people. And scabs.
Your point is well made and easily understood. It's a dog eat dog phenomena in this crazy business and it will repeat over and over.
But there are exceptions to the rule and one was the most recent 3 month strike at Comair.
Much to the astonishment of the U.S. airline community, this strike was airtight! No scabs had emerged in this brutal tug of nerves. The airline management was stopped dead in its tracks because it couldn't move a single airplane.
The CX pilot group could have learned something from those Comair (Delta Connection) pilots: Stick together like superglue.
If all the CX pilots had supported their 54 fallen comrades and stayed off the job, the public and stockholder pressure on CX management to bargain in good faith would have been overwhelming.
There are no desperate situations, only desperate people. And scabs.
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I think there’s a fair to middlin’ chance that “all_scabbed_up” works for Cathay’s PR or psych department and his ‘letter’, (with the standard of English carefully ‘dumbed-down’ to Management’s idea of a ‘real’ Australian pilot’s level of intelligence), is just another all too accurate shot aimed at the waterline of the CX pilots’ solidarity. (First post for him, I notice.) For his sake, I hope he was paid by the word. (That would have to go close to being the longest post I’ve seen on Pprune.) And he deserves whatever it os they’re paying him, because he’s pressed nearly all the right buttons in his lengthy tome.
I say only ‘nearly all’, because I think he comes a little unstuck with his comment “I know for a fact that we would be killed in the rush by the 89'ers etc in SIA, Emirates, Gulf Air Saudia…” You tried a little too hard with that comment, a_s_u. There’ll be applicants, and plenty of ’em, (and who knows, some might be disaffected 89ers), but most will be from be the same ‘class’ of person who went to Oz in 89, (and who knows, in some cases, maybe the very same people thanks to Ansett’s current travails) – the flotsam and jetsam of Aviation, not people working for a real company like the ones you mentioned.
I say only ‘nearly all’, because I think he comes a little unstuck with his comment “I know for a fact that we would be killed in the rush by the 89'ers etc in SIA, Emirates, Gulf Air Saudia…” You tried a little too hard with that comment, a_s_u. There’ll be applicants, and plenty of ’em, (and who knows, some might be disaffected 89ers), but most will be from be the same ‘class’ of person who went to Oz in 89, (and who knows, in some cases, maybe the very same people thanks to Ansett’s current travails) – the flotsam and jetsam of Aviation, not people working for a real company like the ones you mentioned.
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GlueBall--
You have a good point, except that there is one very big hole in your argument. The Comair guys accepted virtually the same offer from the management....only it was offered the second time 'round. Almost no changes. So, the three months off work cost them dearly. And, in HKG the CX pilots cannot strike without the approval of management. The labor laws in HKG are stacked against them.
Wonder if SFO's are licking their chops at the thought that more senior Captains might bite the dust?
You have a good point, except that there is one very big hole in your argument. The Comair guys accepted virtually the same offer from the management....only it was offered the second time 'round. Almost no changes. So, the three months off work cost them dearly. And, in HKG the CX pilots cannot strike without the approval of management. The labor laws in HKG are stacked against them.
Wonder if SFO's are licking their chops at the thought that more senior Captains might bite the dust?
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Just thought I would add that not one of the many '89ers' that I have met over the years was ever inarticulate to the degree displayed in that post by a_s_u above. If this was a product of Cathay's PR or psych departments, then it was the most inept imaginable. For this reason alone, I seriously doubt whether that is so.
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411
After the strike, the senior Capt annual base pay immediately jumped from $66K to $85K. That's no small change for driving a small bizjet.
But the overall point is that management was unable to attract any scabs to fly a single flight. This tightly knit force of CRJ commuter jet jocks has achieved unprecedented respect and honor in the US aviation community.
411: I was not aware that HK law can force a "free" citizen to go to work. Surely, if all 2000+ CX pilots don't show up for work at the same time, leaving CX jets stranded at airports all over the World, that HK lawmakers would become severly alarmed over such impractical, uneforceable law. Such total pilot solidarity would instead focus investors, shareholders and inconvenienced air travelers' attention unto the bankrupt CX management team.
After the strike, the senior Capt annual base pay immediately jumped from $66K to $85K. That's no small change for driving a small bizjet.
But the overall point is that management was unable to attract any scabs to fly a single flight. This tightly knit force of CRJ commuter jet jocks has achieved unprecedented respect and honor in the US aviation community.
411: I was not aware that HK law can force a "free" citizen to go to work. Surely, if all 2000+ CX pilots don't show up for work at the same time, leaving CX jets stranded at airports all over the World, that HK lawmakers would become severly alarmed over such impractical, uneforceable law. Such total pilot solidarity would instead focus investors, shareholders and inconvenienced air travelers' attention unto the bankrupt CX management team.
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1. Regarding Comair. Anything 'Labour' that happens in the US is not translatable to the rest of the world...especially China.
If it was we'd all be on 300K p.a.
2. An Aussie '89er whom I once contracted with for 12 months (and was quite pally with) told me over a beer that if my own company ever struck he'd walk in and take our jobs without a second thought...mates or not. This guy was hurting.
In vino veritas.
If it was we'd all be on 300K p.a.
2. An Aussie '89er whom I once contracted with for 12 months (and was quite pally with) told me over a beer that if my own company ever struck he'd walk in and take our jobs without a second thought...mates or not. This guy was hurting.
In vino veritas.
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Charly,
Suggest you continue reading further in your dictionary.
The Concise Oxford offers additional meanings of 'scab':
'Mean low fellow'.
'Person who refuses to join strike or trade union or takes striker's place or breaks rules of his trade or group'.
If the cap fits, wear it !
Suggest you continue reading further in your dictionary.
The Concise Oxford offers additional meanings of 'scab':
'Mean low fellow'.
'Person who refuses to join strike or trade union or takes striker's place or breaks rules of his trade or group'.
If the cap fits, wear it !
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Having been out of action for a while - nothing serious I'm sorry to say - my reaction to All_scabbed_up (and nowhere to go?) 's post, was the same as Wiley's - he/she is part of CX's (losing) management team's poor attempt to try to indicate that there are hundreds of pilots waiting at the floodgates. A sign of desperation.
It might well behove All_scabbed_up to recall the FINAL outcome of the 1989 Australian dispute, from the Airlines' perspective. A dispute that STARTED with FOUR Airlines companies, and within 5 years ENDED with ONE - Ansett!! And look at its financial condition since.
Certainly the majority of pilots didn't get to go back to work for their original airline, but those who WANTED work found it, and in general, prospered.
UNLIKE the participating EAST-WEST, IPEC, AUSTRALIAN Airlines (TAA), and ANSETT.
The CX dispute is almost one month down the track, with the pilots not yet having done anything other than work as per their Company's O.M's.
Conversely, CX management has squandered hundreds of millions of dollars of the company's assets. Hundreds of millions that could have been saved through simple negotiation.
It is too simplistic to try to justify this excessive, unnecessary waste of money by stating "this management is focused". It makes a mockery of any past or future attempts to freeze or reduce ANY of CX's workers' salaries in the name of "cost-saving", when it is patently clear that management are able, and willing, to blow hundreds of millions of dollars in several weeks on a project obviously undertaken to try to save their collective "face"!
Shame CX management, shame! (Gough Whitlam, 197..something)
It might well behove All_scabbed_up to recall the FINAL outcome of the 1989 Australian dispute, from the Airlines' perspective. A dispute that STARTED with FOUR Airlines companies, and within 5 years ENDED with ONE - Ansett!! And look at its financial condition since.
Certainly the majority of pilots didn't get to go back to work for their original airline, but those who WANTED work found it, and in general, prospered.
UNLIKE the participating EAST-WEST, IPEC, AUSTRALIAN Airlines (TAA), and ANSETT.
The CX dispute is almost one month down the track, with the pilots not yet having done anything other than work as per their Company's O.M's.
Conversely, CX management has squandered hundreds of millions of dollars of the company's assets. Hundreds of millions that could have been saved through simple negotiation.
It is too simplistic to try to justify this excessive, unnecessary waste of money by stating "this management is focused". It makes a mockery of any past or future attempts to freeze or reduce ANY of CX's workers' salaries in the name of "cost-saving", when it is patently clear that management are able, and willing, to blow hundreds of millions of dollars in several weeks on a project obviously undertaken to try to save their collective "face"!
Shame CX management, shame! (Gough Whitlam, 197..something)
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All_scabbed_up ......I would be very very surprised if you are not a part of the management.
As I have pointed out here and on other threads, this is a pilot R & N site, not a site for management propaganda.
It is time that pprune membership be edited to remove non pilots....please
Be careful
As I have pointed out here and on other threads, this is a pilot R & N site, not a site for management propaganda.
It is time that pprune membership be edited to remove non pilots....please
Be careful
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All Scabbed Up,
I have never met anyone involved in Oz 89 that was not deeply affected by what occurred and carries with them, justifiably in my view, very strong views on Unions/collective bargaining.
Please be aware that the majority of CX pilots do not even read Pprune. The Resistance and others are not indicative of the CX pilot mindset.
You will be aware that there are sufficient numbers of 89ers within CX to ensure that no pilot is unaware of how brittle unity can be within a union. Equally, no one is under the illusion that the world pilot brotherhood will wholly support us. Further, both the company and any pilot who was in CX in 1999 will be aware that when faced with a "sign or be fired option" the pilots will sign. To that end the AOA has spent 2 years rebuilding unity after 1999 and is desperate to avoid a "sign or be fired option".
I do not believe the most recent letter received from CX is a case of "sign or be fired"(famous last words..oops). However, the more letters I receive from the DFO, the more convinced I become that he is trying to manoeuvre the pilots into a such a position and is relying on a group of guys to step out of line; he wants an excuse to fire/termimate a lot of guys. Whether he is trying to settle old scores before he retires or is doing the hatchet work before the "new" regime arrives I don't know.
I remain unconvinced that CX sees what you refer to as Contract Pilots as the future, and I am frankly bewildered by the stance the DFO is taking. He is either playing a blinder, or is playing blind.
Yours.. soon to be fired..
Liam G.
I have never met anyone involved in Oz 89 that was not deeply affected by what occurred and carries with them, justifiably in my view, very strong views on Unions/collective bargaining.
Please be aware that the majority of CX pilots do not even read Pprune. The Resistance and others are not indicative of the CX pilot mindset.
You will be aware that there are sufficient numbers of 89ers within CX to ensure that no pilot is unaware of how brittle unity can be within a union. Equally, no one is under the illusion that the world pilot brotherhood will wholly support us. Further, both the company and any pilot who was in CX in 1999 will be aware that when faced with a "sign or be fired option" the pilots will sign. To that end the AOA has spent 2 years rebuilding unity after 1999 and is desperate to avoid a "sign or be fired option".
I do not believe the most recent letter received from CX is a case of "sign or be fired"(famous last words..oops). However, the more letters I receive from the DFO, the more convinced I become that he is trying to manoeuvre the pilots into a such a position and is relying on a group of guys to step out of line; he wants an excuse to fire/termimate a lot of guys. Whether he is trying to settle old scores before he retires or is doing the hatchet work before the "new" regime arrives I don't know.
I remain unconvinced that CX sees what you refer to as Contract Pilots as the future, and I am frankly bewildered by the stance the DFO is taking. He is either playing a blinder, or is playing blind.
Yours.. soon to be fired..
Liam G.