Ba Longhaul Yesterday Ex-t4
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Ba Longhaul Yesterday Ex-t4
I know this has been mentioned in a previous amalgamation regarding coverage of the high wind frolics of yesterday, but has anyone got an absolute reason for why all BA long hauls got cancelled ex-T4 yesterday.
Why were they ALL cancelled?
Just about every other carrier were flying Long Haul & the USA, with a few delays of course but services WERE operating.
I am curious to know what the official reason was, other than high winds and other carriers maintained service?
You are right, T4 was a zoo around 13/14z yesterday, just nowhere for folks to sit, lines and lines of people.
As for parking, there were B747s and B777s parked all over the place yersterday. 3xBA B744s on Cargo apron at EGLL never moved.
I even saw a B777 being pushed backwards up the taxiway for 09R hold last night with all interior lights on.
A BMED A321 was also observed doing low speed taxi runs, assume it was waiting for a gate in T4, thought they would keep pax amused by low speed taxi runs on and off 09R.
Some interesting arrivals & departures from 27L and 27R respectively, well done all !!
Highlight of the day was BA001 departed almost 1hr late at 1145z, up like a rocket as usual - no problem!
Why were they ALL cancelled?
Just about every other carrier were flying Long Haul & the USA, with a few delays of course but services WERE operating.
I am curious to know what the official reason was, other than high winds and other carriers maintained service?
You are right, T4 was a zoo around 13/14z yesterday, just nowhere for folks to sit, lines and lines of people.
As for parking, there were B747s and B777s parked all over the place yersterday. 3xBA B744s on Cargo apron at EGLL never moved.
I even saw a B777 being pushed backwards up the taxiway for 09R hold last night with all interior lights on.
A BMED A321 was also observed doing low speed taxi runs, assume it was waiting for a gate in T4, thought they would keep pax amused by low speed taxi runs on and off 09R.
Some interesting arrivals & departures from 27L and 27R respectively, well done all !!
Highlight of the day was BA001 departed almost 1hr late at 1145z, up like a rocket as usual - no problem!
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When I eventually got through to the BA Executive Club and complained, they first tried the usual "no planes could take off or land". When I said that a steady stream of planes were landing, I got, "Ah, we have to give priority to landing aircraft for safety reasons".
Far enough, said I, but you do realise Heathrow has two available runways, don't you? It's just that I couldn't see the take-off runway from the road.
The flustered ticket agent had said "only UK" flights were coming in, despite my seeing a 744 from another airline (looked like VS, but I was too far from the airport to be certain) landing.
Far enough, said I, but you do realise Heathrow has two available runways, don't you? It's just that I couldn't see the take-off runway from the road.
The flustered ticket agent had said "only UK" flights were coming in, despite my seeing a 744 from another airline (looked like VS, but I was too far from the airport to be certain) landing.
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Nigel
Nigel
Yes, this was my point, VS,UA,AA,CX all maintaining usual service.
OK some delays yes but services continued despite weather.
Wind died right down to 13kts by 22z last night.
Yes, this was my point, VS,UA,AA,CX all maintaining usual service.
OK some delays yes but services continued despite weather.
Wind died right down to 13kts by 22z last night.
The message that reached us at London ACC yesterday was that the baggage handlers at T4 had withdrawn their services as they felt it was too dangerous to continue working in the prevailing winds. Quite why it was windier at T4 than at T1/T2/T3 I don't know - further south perhaps?
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Came back from JFK in the back of probably one of the last BA longhauls into LHR. Capt told us reason for having to wait for an hour for a remote T4 stand was because they couldn't use all of T4 stands if they thought they might need R23. Presumably they thought that the wind was going to back and give an unacceptable Xwind for 27. Don't know if thats true but thats what we were told.
As for bags, still waiting for ours.
As for bags, still waiting for ours.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Was it, possibly, related to the following? It would explain the staff being bolshie and working to rule - in particular the comment about aircraft seeming stranded on stands.
The Times - Monday:
“It was just a cold, greasy sausage,” The Mail on Sunday reported, “but it sparked a walkout that threw British Airways flights from Heathrow into chaos. And all because a kindly cabin steward offered it to an airport driver for his breakfast.
“According to BA management that philanthropic act constituted theft. The driver, who hauls planes into position at Heathrow, was immediately suspended. But the driver’s colleagues were furious . . . Dozens of flights were delayed as BA’s first sausage strike left 12 drivers on duty.”
Ananova - Sunday:
Staff at British Airways have threatened to walk out in a row over a sausage. The row was sparked by a member of the cabin staff offering the left over sausage to one of BA's drivers. The driver was suspended because according to BA removing the sausage from the plane constituted "theft".
A spokeswoman told The Mail On Sunday: "Our clear policy is that we have a zero-tolerance approach to anyone caught taking any items from our aircraft".
The driver's colleagues refused to work following his suspension. He was eventually reinstated and given a written warning.
"What one staff member may see as acceptable, another staff member may decide to take further and make off with a couple of miniatures of spirits," said the BA spokeswoman.
The Times - Monday:
“It was just a cold, greasy sausage,” The Mail on Sunday reported, “but it sparked a walkout that threw British Airways flights from Heathrow into chaos. And all because a kindly cabin steward offered it to an airport driver for his breakfast.
“According to BA management that philanthropic act constituted theft. The driver, who hauls planes into position at Heathrow, was immediately suspended. But the driver’s colleagues were furious . . . Dozens of flights were delayed as BA’s first sausage strike left 12 drivers on duty.”
Ananova - Sunday:
Staff at British Airways have threatened to walk out in a row over a sausage. The row was sparked by a member of the cabin staff offering the left over sausage to one of BA's drivers. The driver was suspended because according to BA removing the sausage from the plane constituted "theft".
A spokeswoman told The Mail On Sunday: "Our clear policy is that we have a zero-tolerance approach to anyone caught taking any items from our aircraft".
The driver's colleagues refused to work following his suspension. He was eventually reinstated and given a written warning.
"What one staff member may see as acceptable, another staff member may decide to take further and make off with a couple of miniatures of spirits," said the BA spokeswoman.
Last edited by ORAC; 28th Oct 2002 at 15:07.
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I'm confused [admittedly not unusual] 
why did the driver get the rap?
surely the crew member concerned was solely liable. How was the driver to know what is and isn't ok to take off flights?
the sausage was perishable and at least wasn't wasted. Minatures are different, but if they had been opened I would also prefer them to be used up - although not by crew on the ramp
why did the driver get the rap?
surely the crew member concerned was solely liable. How was the driver to know what is and isn't ok to take off flights?
the sausage was perishable and at least wasn't wasted. Minatures are different, but if they had been opened I would also prefer them to be used up - although not by crew on the ramp
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Check your FCOM's for max wind door operation.
Also have a peek at the equipment being attached to an a/c !!
A waving jetty will do quite a bit of damge to an a/c and flying containers have been known to kill people.
Maybe T4 was more open to the wind, as was terminal C in DUS.
One of our ramp agents was feeling rather seasick after 8 Hrs on a/c that were behaving more like boats at sea.
There is a remedy for that though....
A double Whisky.
Also have a peek at the equipment being attached to an a/c !!
A waving jetty will do quite a bit of damge to an a/c and flying containers have been known to kill people.
Maybe T4 was more open to the wind, as was terminal C in DUS.
One of our ramp agents was feeling rather seasick after 8 Hrs on a/c that were behaving more like boats at sea.
There is a remedy for that though....
A double Whisky.
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Superb. I wonder what would have happened if the coach driver had a piece of bacon?, or the pier driver had some egg?, I can see the headlines now "Bacon, Sausage and Egg cause a total stoppage at Heathrow"
Controversial, moi?
As usual there is more to the story than meets the eye.
It has been common for many and varied groundstaff to board an aircraft usually after the crew have departed and then pilfer whatever can be found.
It is arguable that food destined for the bin could be eaten but the pilfering has been costing the airline a great deal of money for years.
It should also be noted that facilities exist for all ground staff to eat during their breaks so quite why aeroplane breakfast should be so desirable is beyond me.
A line has to be drawn somewhere, the rules are crystal clear but when they are enforced everybody cries foul!
It has been common for many and varied groundstaff to board an aircraft usually after the crew have departed and then pilfer whatever can be found.
It is arguable that food destined for the bin could be eaten but the pilfering has been costing the airline a great deal of money for years.
It should also be noted that facilities exist for all ground staff to eat during their breaks so quite why aeroplane breakfast should be so desirable is beyond me.
A line has to be drawn somewhere, the rules are crystal clear but when they are enforced everybody cries foul!
Last edited by M.Mouse; 28th Oct 2002 at 23:49.
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M.Mouse, I hear what you say. I myself have been guilty of pilfering the food that is going to be thrown away myself. And one of the things I was told the first day in the hangar was , don't take anything off of the planes. So they did a bit of creative twisting of the words and basically said that eating it on the plane doesnt consititute taking it off the plane. Thing is the caterers themselves don't seem to mind either. Never ate anything when the orange overalls were in abundance though.
But M.Mouse, please explain to me two things.
1) If the cabin staff gave it to the ground crew member, why discipline the ground crew and not the cabin staff?
2) How is pilfering this food, that is going to be thrown away, costing the airline money? Do the waster companies pay BA per ton of food?
Unless of course you are mentioning duty frees etc, which happen to be locked, or things found in seats (such as cameras etc).
But M.Mouse, please explain to me two things.
1) If the cabin staff gave it to the ground crew member, why discipline the ground crew and not the cabin staff?
2) How is pilfering this food, that is going to be thrown away, costing the airline money? Do the waster companies pay BA per ton of food?
Unless of course you are mentioning duty frees etc, which happen to be locked, or things found in seats (such as cameras etc).
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It is common to see ground staff such as dispatchers being offered coffee by cabin crew. Surely this small gesture is good for morale. The penny pinching attitude of accountants in big companies has done more to destroy staff morale and therefby reduce efficiency to an extent that could never be compensated by the paltry savings achieved.
That being said day three and still waiting for bags.
That being said day three and still waiting for bags.
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Where do we draw the line?
How many times have I given the dispatcher or a loader or an engineer a tea or coffee?
If I choose to give away the crisps from my crew snack to ground staff is that wrong?
If we have club meals left over and we eat them or give them to the pilots is that wrong?
I agree the stealing off of thee aircraft is wrong but come on!! No one will argue that food is perrishable and that it gets thrown away after a flight so there is actually no harm in eating a left over breakfast. I know you can't implement a rule to this effect which I'm sure both BA and the unions would spend many a happy hour arguing over, but surely common sense should pervail in a situation like this?
The thought that crosses my mind is who actually reported this event? They need to look at themselves and get a life and concentrate on how they can save the ccompany some money in their job role and not how they can get collegues into trouble and breed anti-trust and bad feeling throughout the company as well as giving the press more ammunition to shoot us with!!!!
How many times have I given the dispatcher or a loader or an engineer a tea or coffee?
If I choose to give away the crisps from my crew snack to ground staff is that wrong?
If we have club meals left over and we eat them or give them to the pilots is that wrong?
I agree the stealing off of thee aircraft is wrong but come on!! No one will argue that food is perrishable and that it gets thrown away after a flight so there is actually no harm in eating a left over breakfast. I know you can't implement a rule to this effect which I'm sure both BA and the unions would spend many a happy hour arguing over, but surely common sense should pervail in a situation like this?
The thought that crosses my mind is who actually reported this event? They need to look at themselves and get a life and concentrate on how they can save the ccompany some money in their job role and not how they can get collegues into trouble and breed anti-trust and bad feeling throughout the company as well as giving the press more ammunition to shoot us with!!!!
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We could all probably help by not downing tools everytime something doesn't go our way.
Both the cabin crew and driver involved should have been disciplined but as has already been posted morale is low enough as it is without department managers spending time and money enforcing this kind of rubbish. You could argue where do we draw the line but why does a line have to be drawn can we not see that a sausage from a breakfast which hadn't been eaten is not exactly the same as removing dutyfree items or alcohol from the bars. Have our superiors lost the power of judgement to such an extent that the rules are followed blindly and as a consequence the whole company gets f****d and loses more than a sausage worth of money.
Both the cabin crew and driver involved should have been disciplined but as has already been posted morale is low enough as it is without department managers spending time and money enforcing this kind of rubbish. You could argue where do we draw the line but why does a line have to be drawn can we not see that a sausage from a breakfast which hadn't been eaten is not exactly the same as removing dutyfree items or alcohol from the bars. Have our superiors lost the power of judgement to such an extent that the rules are followed blindly and as a consequence the whole company gets f****d and loses more than a sausage worth of money.
Controversial, moi?
Panman
I agree that there is a case that food that would ordinarily go to waste is not costing the company money and I also would say that choosing such a comparitively weak issue of surplus food the whole exercise has been counter productive.
Looking at the wider issue where is the line drawn? E.g. We have a rather unseemly rooting amongst the trolleys and ovens for unused food, then how about opening a carton of orange juice to go with it? Or taking some teabags to make a cup of tea, oh, and we need some milk for the tea. A paper to read would be good too.
Impossible to police.
It would have been a fairly easy task to reprimand any number of ground staff leaving the aircraft armed with milk, teabags, cups etc. For that matter search any crew leaving an aircraft and see what you find especially downroute.
The perception is that it is only a teabag or carton of milk but multiply that across the airline and 365 days per year it is a significant loss through theft.
As usual we have the traditional management style of going of half cocked and hitting somebody hard for a relatively minor offence and we now suffer the inevitable backlash.
Shame the management haven't heard of communication and education alongside Captains, FOs and CSDs setting a good example.
Ever wondered why your choice of newspaper isn't available in Club? Well on a 767 probably at least 12 newspapers have been taken by the crew.
Before anybody asks I usually buy my own on the way in or find a used one during the turnaround. I have stopped taking one off the aircraft as there is a strong rumour that the barcode can identify a paper as one of BAs. My job is worth more than 55p.
I agree that there is a case that food that would ordinarily go to waste is not costing the company money and I also would say that choosing such a comparitively weak issue of surplus food the whole exercise has been counter productive.
Looking at the wider issue where is the line drawn? E.g. We have a rather unseemly rooting amongst the trolleys and ovens for unused food, then how about opening a carton of orange juice to go with it? Or taking some teabags to make a cup of tea, oh, and we need some milk for the tea. A paper to read would be good too.
Impossible to police.
It would have been a fairly easy task to reprimand any number of ground staff leaving the aircraft armed with milk, teabags, cups etc. For that matter search any crew leaving an aircraft and see what you find especially downroute.
The perception is that it is only a teabag or carton of milk but multiply that across the airline and 365 days per year it is a significant loss through theft.
As usual we have the traditional management style of going of half cocked and hitting somebody hard for a relatively minor offence and we now suffer the inevitable backlash.
Shame the management haven't heard of communication and education alongside Captains, FOs and CSDs setting a good example.
Ever wondered why your choice of newspaper isn't available in Club? Well on a 767 probably at least 12 newspapers have been taken by the crew.
Before anybody asks I usually buy my own on the way in or find a used one during the turnaround. I have stopped taking one off the aircraft as there is a strong rumour that the barcode can identify a paper as one of BAs. My job is worth more than 55p.
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<<or find a used one during the turnaround. I have stopped taking one off the aircraft as there is a strong rumour that the barcode can identify a paper as one of BAs>>
I'm the same - or if offered a "new" paper by the CC , make the point that if a PAX wishes it, come and get it back.
Thanks for the tip about the barcode - I has thought there might be away they can identify but, but didn't know how. Solution - if you're going to take a paper off the aircraft - remove the bar code!
NoD
I'm the same - or if offered a "new" paper by the CC , make the point that if a PAX wishes it, come and get it back.
Thanks for the tip about the barcode - I has thought there might be away they can identify but, but didn't know how. Solution - if you're going to take a paper off the aircraft - remove the bar code!
NoD
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M. Mouse,
you feel slightly superior because you read only used newspapers but you seem to have slightly missed your own point which is 'where do you draw the line?' I also read only used newspapers, but regardless of whether it has been discarded or not, the newspaper was not put on for my use. The most ridiculous thing I have heard of late is the tale of two engineers, who, on arrival at the aircraft early one morning were offered a cup of tea, since the brewer was on for the rest of the crew. They were caught drinking BA tea on the aircraft and suspended. This was at the same station where we used to be met by the police looking for any left over baguettes for their own breakfast.
Only an idiot would take an item of value off the aircraft, and I don't believe rubbish is of any value to BA. Morale is low enough as it is and we don't need office wallahs reducing it further by denying hardworking staff a cup off tea, or something to relieve the boredom on a long flight. you can't even buy a drinkable cup of tea these days before 6am at Compass Centre. A little humanity and respect by our employers would go a long way towards improving to morale of front line staff.
I know that there will always be the odd person who will completely abuse their position, and anyone causght wil miniatures, items from the duty free trolley, etc deserves what they get. But rubbish and cups of tea on the aircraft are an entirely different matter.
PS On my BA CRM training the training captain actually told us that generosity and respect toward the people we work with is rewarded by those people wanting to acheive the best they can at work. 'So if eng is out in the cold and dark, offer him a cup of tea when he gets up to sign the paperwork, and he will go away inclined to help you out next time.'
you feel slightly superior because you read only used newspapers but you seem to have slightly missed your own point which is 'where do you draw the line?' I also read only used newspapers, but regardless of whether it has been discarded or not, the newspaper was not put on for my use. The most ridiculous thing I have heard of late is the tale of two engineers, who, on arrival at the aircraft early one morning were offered a cup of tea, since the brewer was on for the rest of the crew. They were caught drinking BA tea on the aircraft and suspended. This was at the same station where we used to be met by the police looking for any left over baguettes for their own breakfast.
Only an idiot would take an item of value off the aircraft, and I don't believe rubbish is of any value to BA. Morale is low enough as it is and we don't need office wallahs reducing it further by denying hardworking staff a cup off tea, or something to relieve the boredom on a long flight. you can't even buy a drinkable cup of tea these days before 6am at Compass Centre. A little humanity and respect by our employers would go a long way towards improving to morale of front line staff.
I know that there will always be the odd person who will completely abuse their position, and anyone causght wil miniatures, items from the duty free trolley, etc deserves what they get. But rubbish and cups of tea on the aircraft are an entirely different matter.
PS On my BA CRM training the training captain actually told us that generosity and respect toward the people we work with is rewarded by those people wanting to acheive the best they can at work. 'So if eng is out in the cold and dark, offer him a cup of tea when he gets up to sign the paperwork, and he will go away inclined to help you out next time.'