Uk Level Capping

[Nogbad the Bad]

Just a word about the level capping that is becoming prevalent within London airspace.

Please, if you are capped, try not to moan at the controller. The level capping is done to keep the New en-Route Centre (Swanwick) sectors that have to be "band-boxed" at a manageable level. Usually, if the controllers on those sectors are able to offer higher, they will.

None of us "downstairs" like to keep aircraft artificially low (it clogs up the lower levels for a start !), and we fully realise the penalties involved in doing so.

If you DO wish to complain, please level it at NATS Management who went ahead with the opening of the New en-Route centre (Swanwick) knowing that they did not have to staff to man it properly.

This situation is likely to last for quite some time.

[machone]

Ok so what is the email or website address for the complaints.

?????

[411A]

All the cash spent on RVSM....and now 'tis hard to use, due to ATC.
Ain't it wonderful?
No wonder some in the USA are thinking...is it "really" necessary?
Not to mention 8.33 spacing, a complete waste of time and expense.
Wonder WHEN ATC in the UK will get their collective act together?

[invinoveritas]

411A,

do you actually fly in europe ?

[Bally Heck]

Don't stress youself over 411A invinoveritas. Point scoring is his game, not point making.

[411A]

invinoveritas

Since 1971.

Europe (and UK) reminds me of the Trident, technological advancement at the expense of practicality.

European ATC (except for a few places) seems to fit right in.

[Final 3 Greens]

411A

How many hours have you logged in Tridents?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I agree with 411A that we're are centuries behind the US in many respects... but I wouldn't live there for all the tea in China - just far, far too many fatsoes!!!

[Findo]

411a - RVSM is a supreb aid to ATC in Europe. For one example it allows us to pack Oceanic traffic into optimum levels and routes both ways across the Atlantic giving customer better and more efficient service. Without RVSM in domestic airspace we could not possible handle the density of traffic generated by the Oceanic peak flows.

8.33 is absolutely necessary to allow us to continue to expand our operations to cope with increasing demand. There is a serious shortage of frequencies in Europe where the traffic patterns of countries - not just cities overlap.

We may have some difficulties but then again so did you after the politicians sacked large numbers of ATCOs in 1981. The difference is that we now live in a world where safety regulation is very public and open. The solutions Reagan's government used to "solve" those shortages would not be allowed today.

[Max Angle]

411a says:

Wonder WHEN ATC in the UK will get their collective act together?

I have to say that many of us in the UK who use the system every day are asking the same question, sooner rather than later would be my hope.

[jocko0102]

What is wrong with ATC in the UK then?
Be honest give your gripes and maybe we can answer them.

[Cough]

.....Lack of staff leading to delays.

Absolutely nothing you boys on the 'shop floor' can do about it.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Thanks Cough.......at least you have hit the nail on the head

Any of you others realise just how damned frustrated (to put it mildly) we controllers are at the state that Management has allowed NATS to get in to ???

It's not only the new centre at Swanwick that is grossly understaffed - the disease runs all the way through the operational side of the "company"......and the very sad thing is, that it will not be getting better in the foreseeable future !!!

[Numpo-Nigit]

I've been told there are some alarming projections for operational controller numbers within NATS that suggest the number of departures (normal retirements, early retirements, loss of medical, etc) will exceed the number of replacements until about 2007. At that point things will start to improve until, in about 2011, we will be back up to the desperate state we are in today!!!

[5milesbaby]

we haven't got 8.33 freq spacings at Swanwick yet, trails on S1/S2 soon to start, and then after only S3/S4 can also have them, due to ALL other airspace incorporating stuff below FL245. Didn't think Scottish had it either.

[Young Paul]

So what's the problem with level capping, then? My company asks ATC for it to avoid slot delays. They also usually ask me if I am happy to accept a lower level - and if it avoids a delay, the answer is yes. The fuel penalty to go from about FL360 to FL260 on a UK domestic route is probably less than 200 kg, anyway.

[Seriph]

A bit rich, criticisms of UK ATC from the land of the neurotics, the former superb, the latter variable at best.

[eyeinthesky]

5MB: Don't forget the new S11 will be FL315+, so I suppose that will be a candidate for 8.33 also.

Reference the numbers at Swanwick:

A requirement (depending on who's presenting the figures!) of between 380 and 410 controllers. Presently 40-odd short (c/10%). Next year maybe another 15 less (13%+).

The only long-term solution: Train like mad to get as many people valid as quickly as possible.

The local management approach: Take instructors out of the simulator to control planes and reduce daily delays.

The result: Ever deeper into the mire.

Good, innit?

[Bigears]

Young Paul, I would imagine that 200kg times x number of flights per year = a large amount of dosh.

[Cough]

Bigears - The cost of parking the aircraft on a much needed stand will far outweigh the cost of 200kg. (LHR/LGW anyhow)