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600 to 700 A320 NEO Pratt and Whitney GTFs engines grounded for quality checks

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600 to 700 A320 NEO Pratt and Whitney GTFs engines grounded for quality checks

Old 11th Sep 2023, 18:38
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600 to 700 A320 NEO Pratt and Whitney GTFs engines grounded for quality checks

“Sept 11 (Reuters) - RTX Corp (RTX.N) shares hit a two-year low on Monday after it announced that hundreds of Airbus (AIR.PA) A320neo jets will be grounded through 2026 as its Pratt & Whitney engines unit removes geared turbofan engines (GTF) for quality checks.

As the result of a powder metal defect that could lead to the cracking of engine components, which RTX first described in July, the company now estimates it will pull 600 to 700 engines off jets for inspections and take a $3 billion charge in the third quarter, said RTX, formerly Raytheon.” Reuters


https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/rtx-expects-3-bln-hit-q3-pratt-whitney-gtf-engine-issues-2023-09-11/?ref=upstract.com
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 14:35
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I tried to learn more about the issue with internet research, but the situation seems very unclear. May be deliberately?

Yesterday I read that there need to be at least 3000 engines inspected, and about 1200 of these need to be pulled off-wing for repair: https://www.aero.de/news-45847/Lufth...erzichten.html

Does anybody know how long the initial inspection takes? Is such inspection on-wing or off-wing?

And if you have a finding on the inspection, is the engine grounded immediately, or can it continue to fly until there is revision capacity in the engine shop?

And lastly: how long is the revision expected to take per engine?
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 17:21
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Wonder if this is related to the Marabu an Air China incidents.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 17:56
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Here's a very good review and analysis of the problem:

https://simpleflying.com/pratt-whitn...t-to-airlines/
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 18:10
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Marabu -

"An investigation by the Estonian Civil Aviation Authority revealed the issue stemmed from a loose engine fuel igniter, causing hot gases to exit the engine core, and the damaged aircraft is not expected to return to service until late summer or early fall:" from https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/iata-...-historic-lutz

Air China? Probably not.

This effort is about an engine disk problem and a ruptured disk would do far more than start a fire.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 19:57
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Geared turbofans have always been a "double edged sword". If not, they'd have been implemented 30 years ago....

Last edited by Private jet; 14th Sep 2023 at 20:12.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 03:30
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Originally Posted by Private jet
Geared turbofans have always been a "double edged sword". If not, they'd have been implemented 30 years ago....
Really not that much difference between a GTF and most turboprops or turbine helicopter engines….
But I think none of the issues the P&W GTF engines have are related to the gearbox.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 06:56
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It's more about metal powder engine parts that don't reach the expected lifespan. The gearbox works flawlessly.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 07:59
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Originally Posted by Private jet
Geared turbofans have always been a "double edged sword". If not, they'd have been implemented 30 years ago....
Instead of 50+ years ago, you mean?
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Winemaker
Here's a very good review and analysis of the problem:

https://simpleflying.com/pratt-whitn...t-to-airlines/
Indeed an interesting overview, thanks.

Unfortunately, it does not answer my questions from above.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 19:43
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I am disappointed that this entire issue is being characterised and publicised as an Airbus problem.

It is NOT! It is purely and simply a Pratt and Whitney internal engine defect.

Airbus are the company whose aircraft are badly impacted as a direct result of the failure of the engine to operate reliably

This proposes that the actual situation is presented more accurately.

IG
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 21:26
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Well, given that the Pratt GTF engines are (currently) only used on Airbus aircraft, isn't it fair to say it's a problem that only affects Airbus?
Boeing (and other) manufacturers are not affected.
I noticed that when the 787 was experiencing turbine problems on the Trent 1000 engines, it was regularly labeled as a Boeing 787 problem...
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 06:04
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Well, given that the Pratt GTF engines are (currently) only used on Airbus aircraft, isn't it fair to say it's a problem that only affects Airbus?
Boeing (and other) manufacturers are not affected.
I noticed that when the 787 was experiencing turbine problems on the Trent 1000 engines, it was regularly labeled as a Boeing 787 problem...
TD,
You are quite correct in your first statement, Airbus is the only Company affected
As you say, When it was the B787 and the Trent 1000 problems, Boeing and the B787 were the affected organisations.

These sloppy presentations of what is a very serious situation to both organisations should not be allowed to stand.

IG
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 07:09
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Well, given that the Pratt GTF engines are (currently) only used on Airbus aircraft, isn't it fair to say it's a problem that only affects Airbus?
While I haven't seen any reported problems from them, it will be news to Embraer that only Airbus use the P&W GTF.
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 11:05
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Hi everyone,

Do you guys know if this is an issue affecting the A320neo only or also the A321neo? As far as I’m concerned, they both have the same powerplant but every information or bulletin out there only mentions the A320neo…

In any case, this is going to cost some serious money to RTX…
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 20:18
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Instead of 50+ years ago, you mean?
NO. Fifty years ago the turbines were not capable of supplying the internal power required to drive a big geared fan, or non geared fan, with a very high bypass ratio.
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 20:58
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Originally Posted by Private jet
NO. Fifty years ago the turbines were not capable of supplying the internal power required to drive a big geared fan, or non geared fan, with a very high bypass ratio.
Yes, granted the GTFs of the 1970s had a much lower BPR than present day engines, but they were still GTFs.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 18:35
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Yes, granted the GTFs of the 1970s had a much lower BPR than present day engines, but they were still GTFs.
Yes, you're absolutely right there. Fifty years ago I was age four, and much more interested in Lego & Matchbox cars & drawing pictures!
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