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Foreign carriers to be banned from New York and Washington DC on Sept 11 and 12

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Foreign carriers to be banned from New York and Washington DC on Sept 11 and 12

Old 29th Aug 2002, 18:51
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Foreign carriers to be banned from New York and Washington DC on Sept 11 and 12

We'll see if this ban actually takes effect, and, yes, it would seem to defy logic.
____________________________________________
Groups Oppose One Day Ban on Flights Over 9/11 Crash Sites

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 11:20 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Foreign-owned airlines and the U.S. general aviation industry are lobbying the federal government to back off a plan to temporarily restrict flights over the three Sept. 11 crash sites.

Federal regulators are proposing to restrict foreign-owned commercial and cargo aircraft from flying into and from New York and Washington and over Somerset County, Pa., on the anniversary of the terrorist attacks. They're also considering banning small, privately owned aircraft from New York from Sept. 11-13.

The planes would be prohibited from flying within 30 miles of the three locations.

Warren Morningstar, spokesman for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, said federal regulators told industry representatives the flight restrictions would be imposed for "general security reasons'' and to avoid disrupting commemorative ceremonies.

"We're certainly trying to find some better accommodations so that people with legitimate transportation needs can use their aircraft,'' Morningstar said.

A Federal Aviation Administration official declined to comment beyond describing the proposal, which could be approved as early as Friday.

The International Air Transport Association, which represents U.S. and foreign-owned airlines, questioned why American-owned airlines are not included.

"The way (the proposed restriction) is structured now discriminates against foreign airlines and unintentionally suggests that a foreign airline isn't as secure as a domestic airline, and that certainly isn't the case,'' spokeswoman Wanda Warner said.

David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said the plan would inconvenience many travelers and may increase anxieties about Sept. 11.

The proposed restrictions include:

--Banning internationally owned planes to and from Washington from 8:30 a.m. EDT to 11 a.m. on Sept. 11.

-- Foreign-owned planes would not be permitted to take off and land in New York from 8 a.m. to noon and 3:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Sept. 11. On Sept. 12, the ban would be in effect from 9:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. and from 7 p.m. to 10:30 p.m.

--Small aircraft flying to and from New York would be restricted from 7 a.m. on Sept. 11 to 8 p.m. on Sept. 13.

--Flights would not be allowed over Somerset County, Pa., where one of the four hijacked planes crashed, from 11:30 a.m. to 2 p.m. on Sept. 11.

The restrictions were first reported by The Financial Times of London
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 21:35
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Red face

Typical Yank dumbass reaction. In less than a year they've forgotten that all of the Hijacked aircraft were domestic operators flying internal routes. Well guess It all comes down from the top Idiot, Dubbya
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 22:15
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Flights will be banned over Somerset County?

In case someone tries to dive-bomb a bunch of trees and the odd squirrel?

Barmy. Sounds like the main group of people that Americans need to be protected against is Americans.
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 22:36
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Eh!!!

Does anyone have any ideas for the real reason behind this.
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 22:48
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I think the CNN report below gives the general idea. They're scared of someone hijacking an aircraft and trying to exploit the anniversary. They're reasonably happy with the new internal security arrangements concerning access/doors implemented on domestic carriers. But they can't ensure these are being complied with by foreign carriers and they're not feasible for charter, commuter or general aviation aircraft. So they're looking at banning them from the areas in which rememberance ceremonies will take place. The area minimum height restrictions would prohibit restricted aircraft operating in or out of Washington or New York.

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As a precaution around the first anniversary of September 11, federal authorities are considering imposing flight restrictions over Washington, New York and Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where hijackers crashed four planes in terror attacks, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.

The restrictions on general aviation and charter aircraft would cover flight paths around the three areas.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said Thursday no final decision has been made. Brown said no specific threat prompted the proposals under consideration by experts from the Office of Homeland Security, Defense Department, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration and FAA.

Most domestic, scheduled commercial airline traffic would not face additional restrictions, she added.

Brown said the restrictions would cover flight paths around New York, Washington and Somerset County, primarily as a precaution while ceremonies in those areas honor the more than 3,000 victims of the terrorist attacks.

Among the proposals, aircraft in the restricted categories would have to avoid flying below 18,000 feet in an area 60 miles in diameter around the three localities.

Regional and commuter commercial flights, which fly at lower altitudes on shorter runs, also would be blocked from crossing the regions unless the aircraft were equipped with "hardened" cockpits, which feature secure doors aimed at keeping out hijackers, or other unspecified security.

If approved, the restrictions would be in effect for New York on three days between September 11 and 13. Around Washington, the additional restrictions would apply from 8:30 to 11 a.m. EDT September 11. In the Somerset County area, the flight restrictions would run from 11 a.m. through 2:30 p.m. September 11.

Brown said the Transportation Security Administration is not likely to grant any waivers of the temporary rules if approved.
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 23:17
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...experts from the Office of Homeland Security... 'nuff said
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 23:27
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I trust all US carriers on flights from the UK to restricted areas will have their departure delayed by the CAA until theres no chance that they could infringe the restriction times?
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Old 29th Aug 2002, 23:35
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They have backed down.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/....ap/index.html

So why even mention it in the first place ? Dolts !
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 08:49
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Thumbs down

The 'logic' even more incredible as 911 involved American carriers flying American domestic flights from an American domestic terminal...

Still us foreigners are such nasty people...
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 10:34
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It also shows a complete lack of understanding about how terrorists opperate. Sept 11 worked because of suprise. Attacking on Sept 11 would be stupid as security will be tighter than ever. If another attack were to occur, another day would be chosen (IMHO).
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 11:28
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the reason and the backpedal:
___________________________________________________
Planned Sept. 11 Restrictions On Foreign Flights Canceled

By Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 30, 2002

The Bush administration overturned a Pentagon plan to restrict foreign flights in New York and Washington on Sept. 11 after concluding it would break international agreements, officials said yesterday.

Officials said the Defense Department had asked for the restrictions because of fears about its ability to defend the skies during commemorative ceremonies, including ones featuring President Bush. Intelligence agencies and the Secret Service were involved in the planning, officials said.

Airlines said the limits -- the most severe since authorities reopened the skies on Sept. 13 -- would have disrupted flight schedules throughout the world, inconveniencing travelers for much of the week.

The Federal Aviation Administration notified aviation groups about the plan on Tuesday, but the Transportation Department, the FAA's parent, canceled the restrictions yesterday after an outcry. Officials concluded they would breach international air traffic agreements in which countries give reciprocal privileges to one another's flights. Officials said the pacts prevent them from giving different treatment to domestic and foreign carriers.

Transportation officials admitted embarrassment -- and the White House expressed annoyance -- at the clumsy handling of the plan, which antagonized U.S. allies and infuriated airlines, which were already laboring under post-attack restrictions.

"A proposal got out the door before all the powers that be had taken a look at it," a senior administration official said. "When it came to the attention of the higher-up, it was determined this had been done in haste."

Officials from across the government are scheduled to meet today to determine what restrictions will be imposed instead. Bush is scheduled to travel on Sept. 11 to the three sites where the four hijacked planes crashed -- the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and Shanksville. Air traffic is always restricted when he travels, and that will be a starting point for the Sept. 11 rules. Administration officials said additional restrictions may be imposed because of the crowds that will be at the remembrance events Bush will not attend.

"Restrictions will probably have the greatest impact on charter and general aviation aircraft," an official said.

Officials said the restrictions were requested by the Defense Department, specifically by the North American Aerospace Defense Command, which is responsible for detecting and defending against air attacks. Officials said the Pentagon was concerned that the U.S. government knows less about foreign carriers and their passengers than it knows about domestic airlines.

However, White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said: "We have no information that indicates that September 11th commemorative events are specifically targeted."

Aviation officials who were briefed on Tuesday said the FAA gave them little explanation for the restrictions. Warren Morningstar, spokesman for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, which represents general aviators, said the restrictions seemed disproportionately aimed at small planes.

"We're sort of scratching our heads, saying, 'Why the little ones that can't do any damage and not the big guys?' " Morningstar said. "The answers were 'That's just the way it is.' "
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 14:07
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In the true American style of blaming everyone else for their problems

Good old Dubya logic strikes again. Lookes like he's going to have some knee surgery soon, that tendon in his knee must be worn out.

What next? Ban the use of foreign steel - oops, already done that.

OK - impose massive import taxes on everything foreign - damn, done that too.

Guess you'll just have to stick to thinking every johnny foreigner is the bad guy then!

Infinite wisdom indeed

Last edited by Kilted; 30th Aug 2002 at 14:11.
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Old 31st Aug 2002, 07:52
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lots of typical "johnny foreigner"ridiculous comments here..... so if USA is so bad, go crying to somebody else next time you need bailing out of a self-created mess...
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Old 31st Aug 2002, 08:05
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Sure will Ironbutt, now can you stop trying to involve us in your pointless wars of conquest?
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Old 31st Aug 2002, 09:52
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More America bashing!!! If you do not like America, STAY HOME !
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