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Swiss airspace closed

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Swiss airspace closed

Old 15th Jun 2022, 07:33
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Swiss airspace closed

Seem major IT failure: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...fic-controller

Whatever the root cause I find it rather incredible - they should be able to deliver basic ATC service no matter what.

UPDATE: Some flights departing LSGG (830Z). Wonder how they prioritise as it seems pretty random (Mykonos, Athens, Marrakesh, Lisbon being the first destination serviced).


Last edited by zambonidriver; 15th Jun 2022 at 08:25.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 07:46
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No major problems with departures or arrivals at BSL ...
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 07:51
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For all intent and purpose (ATC, border control, regulation) BSL is a French airport. With some exceptions / provisions for a "swiss" and a "german" sector. But it is France who runs the show.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 08:21
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61808465

Flights in and out of Switzerland have been suspended and Swiss airspace closed because of a computer failure at air traffic control service Skyguide.

Geneva and Zurich halted flights, although Geneva airport announced air traffic was gradually resuming.

Skyguide said a technical malfunction ( hardware failure reported ) in the early hours of Wednesday meant that Swiss airspace had to be closed to traffic for "safety reasons".

​​​​​​……..
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 10:11
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Swiss airspace now back to full capacity since 0800z
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 10:35
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Originally Posted by zambonidriver View Post
Seem major IT failure: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...fic-controller

Whatever the root cause I find it rather incredible - they should be able to deliver basic ATC service no matter what.

UPDATE: Some flights departing LSGG (830Z). Wonder how they prioritise as it seems pretty random (Mykonos, Athens, Marrakesh, Lisbon being the first destination serviced).
What kind of basic service do you have in mind?
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 10:49
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Whatever the root cause I find it rather incredible - they should be able to deliver basic ATC service no matter what.
You mean a return to Aldis lamps, flares and flags ?
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 10:50
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I suppose like the ones you get in places that have no radar and procedurally separate on position reports and altitude/FL.

Maybe they were sold a system that claimed such low downtime that it didn’t seem worth keeping a manual backup?
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 11:30
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I see many delays and cancellations at major airports but also some landings and fights as well.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 11:43
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Originally Posted by FullWings View Post
I suppose like the ones you get in places that have no radar and procedurally separate on position reports and altitude/FL.

Maybe they were sold a system that claimed such low downtime that it didn’t seem worth keeping a manual backup?
There is no ATC provider in Europe that could provide en route services without their data processing system.

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Old 15th Jun 2022, 12:14
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So why did the failover system not work ?

IG
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 12:56
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It was an approximately 2 hour 30 outage by the looks of it during which they shut the whole airspace down, even VFR (quite a lot of VFR flights appear not to have gotten the NOTAM in time though). All arrivals to ZRH and GVA were diverted and outbounds held. Apparently Altenrhein (LSZR) was able to launch their Vienna flight across the border to Germany.

We don't know the extent of the outage yet only that they were not even able to produce the NOTAM themselves but had to enlist help from Austria. So the question is, if the radio systems (VHF) kept working or not.

If some sort of "basic service" such as uncontrolled approaches out of a holding outside the FIR for instance would have been possible for the longhauls is debatable but not really something done here.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 13:20
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Incredible that something like this could still happen today, that the entire airspace gets closed down...
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 13:30
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I suppose like the ones you get in places that have no radar and procedurally separate on position reports and altitude/FL.
Yup. Things like MEDEVAC or other high priority flights. It was a complete shutdown.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 14:59
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Jesus ! Which year are you stuck in ? ? Procedural ATC is no longer available in European continental airspace, since decades. no tools for that anymore ( strip boards) nobody is trained anymore to do it either. . It is all 100% digital , if the screens go blank, you have zero info.
Simple analogy : if you read a book on your tablet or Kindle and it breaks down , you cannot continue to read unless you have bought the paper book as a back up .
Well most if not all ANSPs have decided buying paper books for back ups were too expensive and teaching people to read on paper would be a waste of time and money.
So here you go. Welcome to the 21st century..
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 15:08
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Thanks - wasn't aware it was THAT bad... I guess I was stuck in 20th century.

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Old 15th Jun 2022, 15:41
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I did a TRUCE day at Swanwick not that long ago (within the last 10 years I think?) and one of the practice sessions was a fallback to pen and paper as the screens blanked one after the other. I don’t think they’d start the day like that but at the moment the system fails there are still aircraft in the sky that need deconflicting...
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 16:10
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Originally Posted by FullWings View Post
I did a TRUCE day at Swanwick not that long ago (within the last 10 years I think?) and one of the practice sessions was a fallback to pen and paper as the screens blanked one after the other. I don’t think they’d start the day like that but at the moment the system fails there are still aircraft in the sky that need deconflicting...
That begs the question… how did they deal with the guys in the sky today ?

And a second question … would this event qualify for a Swiss accident investigation organisation report ?
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 16:23
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Originally Posted by FullWings View Post
I did a TRUCE day at Swanwick not that long ago (within the last 10 years I think?) and one of the practice sessions was a fallback to pen and paper as the screens blanked one after the other. I don’t think they’d start the day like that but at the moment the system fails there are still aircraft in the sky that need deconflicting...
The fall back system will usually involve urgently deconflicting, dispersing to adjacent sectors, landing those on final & stopping all departures: which sounds exactly like what happened in Switzerland. There's really no safe way to operate the volumes of traffic, in complex airspace, without the technology to do it. The analogy of your Kindle failing is apposite: procedural only works where there's insufficient traffic to merit surveillance; the separation standards required can't be implemented in the time or space available when the tech fails.
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 17:01
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That begs the question… how did they deal with the guys in the sky today ?
And a second question … would this event qualify for a Swiss accident investigation organization report ?
on your first question I will let ZRH or GVA people answer that but as far as I know, , quite well considering the situation, on the second one , you bet there will be an investigation , but there was no accident , it will be an incident investigation . important difference.
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