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Wizzair CEO telling crews to fly fatigued

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Wizzair CEO telling crews to fly fatigued

Old 14th Jun 2022, 09:12
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I don't know what the union situation is at Wizzair and others, but it is high time the union stepped in, grew some teeth and started taking positive action. Not just at Wizzair either.

Pleading that they hope the management will not penalise any pilots who report fatigued is just pathetic. It also puts the onus on individuals to take the very brave step of reporting fatigued. Following those comments by this CEO, all pilots should have been balloted on a series of 24 hour strikes.

Look at the railway union in the UK. They stand up for their members, and the members stand up for each other. (Train drivers training is paid for by the train operating companies, by the way). The pilots union has always been very weak, and they go along with most of what is thrown at them. Ditto the UK CAA.

The fact that we even have a fatigue reporting process is utterly ridiculous and bonkers. Pilots, of all people, should never be rostered anywhere near fatigue in the first place - they quite literally have the lives of 100 - 400 people in their hands.

I have often wondered whether the union management and airline pilot management and Company Council members have been secretly given lots of free benefits, e.g. free longhaul flights and holidays for their families by airlines to go along with whatever efficiencies the CEO wants to achieve.

In 2004 ish, I challenged the boss of Flybe about the number of 6 on 2 off duties we were doing but he just brushed it aside. Most were 4 sector days, we finished the 6 on lates, and started the next 6 on earlies, so our 2 days off was actually just over 1 day off, by the time we had recovered from the previous 6 days and had to go to sleep at about 1900 before the next 6 day duty. I stuck it out for 5 years then left, but too late - my marriage did not survive.

Come on union !! You are supposed to be protecting and standing up for your members, not helping the CEOs run their airlines. Get a grip and take some positive action. Our profession is halfway down the tubes already, you/we need to act now.
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 09:27
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What the CEO says in an internally published video to his employees is probably a restrained version of the thoughts he has already shared with his senior leadership team. And what he has said to his senior leadership team is probably a very restrained version of what he is actually thinking.
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 10:04
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Interesting discussion . This CEO is not afraid to bully its staff openly on video,disregarding legal consequemnces, But it is Hungary and its President Orban is doing exactly the same , and as he is geting away with it so others think they can do the same ..
That said as Hungary is in the EU they are protected by th 900 hours no ?
In ATC in some high density ACCs the number of hours this Sumer will be double that ( around 30/week actually on the position ), and most of those are constant full concentration busy traffic hours , including night nowadays with a booming cargo industry. A Euroepan centre has even introduced rosters 10 days on 1 off ....
Fatigue is not easily measurable and vary greatly from person to person but it is a safety issue, and bullying staff not to report it is crazy.

In his Video he says cancelling flights cost money and are bad for the brand name. He should read a bit hsitory and see what an accident does to an airline brand name and insurance premiums. .
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 20:35
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Douglas bader

In the 70s he did a study and a report on fatigue and flight time limitations whose recommendations were watered down by the CAA or Board of Trade so very little changed. This wasn't helped by management fiddling them. We had a night Nicosia return which could not be operated legally if rostered but could if from airport reserve. The word went around and the captain on the one I was due to operate went sick.
Unfortunately we voted in a union rep who sold us down the river then resigned and went straight into management.
Used to do a Zurich Atlanta but in winter with the stronger winds on the Nat Tracks it required a double crew so the published schedule was changed.. we went with a normal crew and arrived an hour late...worse was pick up for the return flight when they pretended it was on time so we had a couple of hours sitting in departures waiting for the aircraft to arrive and be serviced.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 21:31
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
I don't know what the union situation is at Wizzair and others, but it is high time the union stepped in, grew some teeth and started taking positive action. Not just at Wizzair either.
Unfortunately a lot of pilots believe themselves to be too clever and/or are too cheap to join a union. We're even worse in the European theatre where ECA is fighting valiantly but with a lot less money than our employers spend on lobbying Brussels. Some things like policies against self-employment need to be lobbied / fought for in a kind of "coordinated dance" between Brussels and individual member states, some of which lack a functional pilot union.

Given the right resolve and coordination we could enjoy significantly better working conditions a lot less downward pressure but as a group we're just too stupid. The last time I looked at the figures less than half of European commercial pilots were in a union.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 09:04
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Alpine Flyer: that's a sobering figure for membership. I was a member of BALPA while working (still a retired member), and they twice did things that paid my membership fees many times over.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 14:17
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...speak-27250465
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Old 29th Jun 2022, 19:50
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What a bummer...Not too surprising from them though
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Old 29th Jun 2022, 22:15
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If he thinks cancelling a flight is expensive, he should try having an accident
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Old 29th Jun 2022, 22:21
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
If he thinks cancelling a flight is expensive, he should try having an accident
He's on the same level as O'Leary. There's one in Easy too, but fortunately he doesn't have the same power.
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Old 30th Jun 2022, 15:47
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MOL is certainly well aware of safety and external brand image.
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Old 30th Jun 2022, 16:01
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
MOL is certainly well aware of safety and external brand image.
Is the brand image good?
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Old 30th Jun 2022, 16:53
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If the ONLY thing you care about is price, yes.
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Old 30th Jun 2022, 18:47
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Originally Posted by calypso View Post
If the ONLY thing you care about is price, yes.
Agreed.
Purely out of interest do you think that there is widespread unhappiness within the workforce?
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 08:33
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Originally Posted by Confusious View Post
Is the brand image good?
I think, the Ryanair brand image is top-notch:
- Low price
- You get what you pay for
- Fly everywhere
- Pretty reliable for the passengers (IE little excuses to "not" fly, cancel)
- A significant company drive to adhere to the flying schedule
- In general, "new aircraft".
- Safe

And, despite all the complaining at PP, this biggest EU airline never lost a hull/passenger due to an avoidable aspect (birds aren't controllable and airport responsibility anyway ....), which is a respectable situation, given the huge scale of SH-only operations, the secondary airfields they fly and adherence to the schedule.

For complaints about the flight hour limitations, one needs to be at EASA, not at the airlines.....
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 11:24
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Originally Posted by WideScreen View Post
I think, the Ryanair brand image is top-notch:
- Low price
- You get what you pay for
- Fly everywhere
- Pretty reliable for the passengers (IE little excuses to "not" fly, cancel)
- A significant company drive to adhere to the flying schedule
- In general, "new aircraft".
- Safe

And, despite all the complaining at PP, this biggest EU airline never lost a hull/passenger due to an avoidable aspect (birds aren't controllable and airport responsibility anyway ....), which is a respectable situation, given the huge scale of SH-only operations, the secondary airfields they fly and adherence to the schedule.

For complaints about the flight hour limitations, one needs to be at EASA, not at the airlines.....
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/airl...s-a5EhC8N851et
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 12:36
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Front page headline of today's Financial Times....
"Ryanair chief warns fares will rise for 5 years because flying is ‘too cheap’

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary, the pioneer of low-cost travel in Europe, has warned fares will rise for the next five years because flying has become “too cheap” to make profits as industry costs spiral. His warning comes as ticket prices have risen in Europe and the US this summer as passengers return and some airlines cut capacity because of staff shortages.
“It’s got too cheap for what it is. I find it absurd every time that I fly to Stansted, the train journey into central London is more expensive than the air fare,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times. He said he expected a combination of high oil prices and environmental charges to push the average Ryanair fare up from €40 to between €50 to €60 over the medium term.
O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 16:22
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Yep, a low score, though that does not imply, the airline isn't popular. Ryanair does have strict "rules", try to cheat on these, and it is going to cost you a fortune. Just follow their rules and you know what you get. Don't agree with the rules: Pay more for a legacy carrier and complain to.

Originally Posted by slast View Post
Front page headline of today's Financial Times....
"Ryanair chief warns fares will rise for 5 years because flying is ‘too cheap’

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary, the pioneer of low-cost travel in Europe, has warned fares will rise for the next five years because flying has become “too cheap” to make profits as industry costs spiral. His warning comes as ticket prices have risen in Europe and the US this summer as passengers return and some airlines cut capacity because of staff shortages.
“It’s got too cheap for what it is. I find it absurd every time that I fly to Stansted, the train journey into central London is more expensive than the air fare,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times. He said he expected a combination of high oil prices and environmental charges to push the average Ryanair fare up from €40 to between €50 to €60 over the medium term.
O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”
Yep, Brexit disaster, Covid-19, Russian invasion into Ukraine and you have the main reasons why ticket pricing goes up. Across the board, for all airlines (tried to book J class long-distance ? Costs a fortune now). When Putin gets assassinated, the energy price landscape will change dramatically.

And, yep, land-based transport does cost a fortune, simply because that area is only 2-dimensional and being used in competition with a huge amount of other activities.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 10:15
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Originally Posted by slast View Post
O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”
Presumably this explains why there's no staff shortages at EU & US airports and airlines then? Perish the thought!
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 13:30
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Originally Posted by SamYeager View Post
Presumably this explains why there's no staff shortages at EU & US airports and airlines then? Perish the thought!
The Brexit disaster did organize this whole mess, did start earlier in the UK and seems to be a much deeper economic effect than the ROW.
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