VS 3 turnback
I’m really surprised that simple barriers in the roster/schedule process and systems do not prevent this from happing. Our company system will not allow a pilot with LIFUS status to be paired with a line PIC. I find it hard to believe VS does not have a similar system barrier.
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Probably not, but luckily safety policy of most decent airlines this days is the opposite of mouth being kept shut.
The simple fact that you will not have yet completed your conversion course in line with ORO.FC.120.
The simple fact that you will not have yet completed your conversion course in line with ORO.FC.120.
Only half a speed-brake
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No supernumerary pilot during line training in the US, except for augmented operations.
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I have a question regarding exactly this topic. Once I succeeded my skill test and then my base training, my license was issued the very next day. (maybe even just after the skill test, I forgot)
So, what would prevent me from operating as a first officer on that day ? When I finished my line training and succeeded the line check, nothing on my license changed.
So, what would prevent me from operating as a first officer on that day ? When I finished my line training and succeeded the line check, nothing on my license changed.
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Things are absolutely fine! Still get paid a good salary and pension on time, still get leave approved, still flying to great destinations on brand new aircraft.
Yea we are working harder, but still one of the best gigs out there.
get back in your box ☺️
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Of course if the copilot were to "Incapacitate" the Captain could then decide his course of action based on what he feels most comfortable with. There is no requirement to land at nearest suitable and if the route to destination is programmed into the FMS and he does not want to divert or dump fuel he could continue to destination. A pan call is required.
I am aware of a USA to Europe flight that flew for over five hours and continued to destination after the FO incapacitated. The Captain said that to dump fuel and divert into a snowy Newfoundland at night would have scared the hell out of him but to continue to destination and his home base and land in daylight was very straightforward.
If the VS Captain had continued, unless it was the last flight to JFK, a crew could have been positioned out later that day to JFK to fly the aircraft back the following day. Passengers would not have known anything and the schedule would not have been disrupted. If the Captain in this case felt happier to return or was advised to then fair enough.
I am aware of a USA to Europe flight that flew for over five hours and continued to destination after the FO incapacitated. The Captain said that to dump fuel and divert into a snowy Newfoundland at night would have scared the hell out of him but to continue to destination and his home base and land in daylight was very straightforward.
If the VS Captain had continued, unless it was the last flight to JFK, a crew could have been positioned out later that day to JFK to fly the aircraft back the following day. Passengers would not have known anything and the schedule would not have been disrupted. If the Captain in this case felt happier to return or was advised to then fair enough.
Only half a speed-brake
Nope, the FAA would be waterboarding Virgin's AOC by now, and rightfully so. Not an option to fly an uncertified service any further than necessary, passenger convenience notwithstanding. Not to mention the social media carnage aftermath.
As one grows older the game gets more simple. The more truthful the better (choice).
As one grows older the game gets more simple. The more truthful the better (choice).
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I’m really surprised that simple barriers in the roster/schedule process and systems do not prevent this from happing. Our company system will not allow a pilot with LIFUS status to be paired with a line PIC. I find it hard to believe VS does not have a similar system barrier.
Garbage in, Garbage Out.
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Of course if the copilot were to "Incapacitate" the Captain could then decide his course of action based on what he feels most comfortable with. There is no requirement to land at nearest suitable and if the route to destination is programmed into the FMS and he does not want to divert or dump fuel he could continue to destination. A pan call is required.
I am aware of a USA to Europe flight that flew for over five hours and continued to destination after the FO incapacitated. The Captain said that to dump fuel and divert into a snowy Newfoundland at night would have scared the hell out of him but to continue to destination and his home base and land in daylight was very straightforward.
If the VS Captain had continued, unless it was the last flight to JFK, a crew could have been positioned out later that day to JFK to fly the aircraft back the following day. Passengers would not have known anything and the schedule would not have been disrupted. If the Captain in this case felt happier to return or was advised to then fair enough.
I am aware of a USA to Europe flight that flew for over five hours and continued to destination after the FO incapacitated. The Captain said that to dump fuel and divert into a snowy Newfoundland at night would have scared the hell out of him but to continue to destination and his home base and land in daylight was very straightforward.
If the VS Captain had continued, unless it was the last flight to JFK, a crew could have been positioned out later that day to JFK to fly the aircraft back the following day. Passengers would not have known anything and the schedule would not have been disrupted. If the Captain in this case felt happier to return or was advised to then fair enough.
In my Airline, not the one in question, if one of us is incapacitated our manuals state we shall declare a mayday..
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Nope, the FAA would be waterboarding Virgin's AOC by now, and rightfully so. Not an option to fly an uncertified service any further than necessary, passenger convenience notwithstanding. Not to mention the social media carnage aftermath.
As one grows older the game gets more simple. The more truthful the better (choice).
As one grows older the game gets more simple. The more truthful the better (choice).
Only half a speed-brake
But as you bolded my text, sooner or later someone would had leaked it out, or a bulletin from AAIB be published. Tabloíds would have loved the story: Untrained crew flies 300 souls across the Atlantic! Virgin too much? Pilots need proper initiation too...
Practically, the FO on this flight had just completed a type rating course (ZFT) and part of their line training, so in terms of operating the aircraft, would be pretty current and capable, especially as you cover stuff in conversion that you don’t often see in recurrent training and a lot of it would have been NNPs. Risk to aviation: negligible.
Having witnessed the FAA go after a foreign crew that followed procedure approved by their airline, regulator, aircraft manufacturer and the FAA themselves, I would have second thoughts about continuing to the USA once the rostering error had been discovered. I suspect that’s one of the reasons Virgin management asked them to return once the situation became clear.
Having witnessed the FAA go after a foreign crew that followed procedure approved by their airline, regulator, aircraft manufacturer and the FAA themselves, I would have second thoughts about continuing to the USA once the rostering error had been discovered. I suspect that’s one of the reasons Virgin management asked them to return once the situation became clear.
A wise decision was made.
Like buying my EFOS electronic training documents a whiles back. Made answering CAA annual inspection questions on command course failure rate much much easier. The data can be inter faced, drilled and cut . Electronic permissions are a good tool.
Like buying my EFOS electronic training documents a whiles back. Made answering CAA annual inspection questions on command course failure rate much much easier. The data can be inter faced, drilled and cut . Electronic permissions are a good tool.
