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Speed tape, much?

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Speed tape, much?

Old 24th Apr 2022, 21:17
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A Saudia 787, according to to the original reddit post. And it's been in this state this for at least a month.
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Old 24th Apr 2022, 21:30
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Originally Posted by slfool View Post
A Saudia 787, according to to the original reddit post. And it's been in this state this for at least a month.
Hopefully if it comes back to the UK next time and if still in the same state, the CAA will plan to do a SAFA inspection on it. I would ground it if I saw that as an inspector.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 00:20
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Hopefully if it comes back to the UK next time and if still in the same state, the CAA will plan to do a SAFA inspection on it. I would ground it if I saw that as an inspector.
What for having an approved temp repair carried out iaw the manufacturers procedure? I don't think you'd last long as a SAFA inspector.

The speed tape is there to protect the composite from UV damage. It gets applied and then reinspected at set intervals with any damaged tape removed and recovered.

It's a known problem fleetwide and there is a repaint scheme to fix it. Only prob is there's a limited number of paint shops that are willing and approved by Boeing to do it as its a fairly in depth procedure. Add in the fact there's quite a few 787s to be done and the small issue of airlines wanting to resume as much flying as possible post covid = plenty of speed tape for a while yet.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 06:26
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Originally Posted by Yeehaw22 View Post
What for having an approved temp repair carried out iaw the manufacturers procedure? I don't think you'd last long as a SAFA inspector.

The speed tape is there to protect the composite from UV damage. It gets applied and then reinspected at set intervals with any damaged tape removed and recovered.

It's a known problem fleetwide and there is a repaint scheme to fix it. Only prob is there's a limited number of paint shops that are willing and approved by Boeing to do it as its a fairly in depth procedure. Add in the fact there's quite a few 787s to be done and the small issue of airlines wanting to resume as much flying as possible post covid = plenty of speed tape for a while yet.
As I said before, accepted repair iaw manufacturers instructions. Applied properly? Will of God. I am well aware that the matrix resins used on the 78 are UV intolerant.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 07:07
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Originally Posted by zerograv View Post
The machine in the background is not a 787. It is triple 7 ...
Yes, I am aware that it is a QR B777 in the background. I was questioning if the wing in question was a QR B787 which would have been doubly ironic? Apparently it is a Saudia B787 wing though.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Hopefully if it comes back to the UK next time and if still in the same state, the CAA will plan to do a SAFA inspection on it. I would ground it if I saw that as an inspector.
The only grounds for a SAFA finding would be if the deferral was not in accordance with approved documentation and repeat inspection requirements were not captured in the aircraft maintenance log.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 09:09
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Krystal, #6

The only reason for those wrinkles, and they are excessive, is poor application technique. Once the patch is cut to size, and in place, you simply ensure even pressure is applied and lo and behold, a smooth surface results.

Non professional use of speed tape suggests otherwise; there is rarely just one reason in human related activity.

Theses ‘patches’ are strips of tape, many of them; apparently with some span-wise overlap. The ‘wrinkles’ also radiate span-wise, across several strips of tape, which suggest extremely poor application or some other effect.

Not withstanding the rules and regulations of using tape, maintenance or inspection, the question at #5 relates to what exists, what is on that aircraft and is it a hazard.

Depending on scale, the wrinkles are similar to depictions of ‘runback’ icing, a significant hazard.

P.S. when applying tape - it does not tear easily or neatly, thus cut it. Before application, scissors etc, or cut with a knife through the tape down on to the paintwork !!!!
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 11:22
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Thumbs down

There are requirements regarding aerodynamic smoothness in every AMM. (should be in ATA 51- Standard practices - structure) I am not familiar with 787 limits, but these wrinkles looks beyond acceptable to me. Not to think of what happens if a large patch of silvertape partially peels off, say, in front of aileron. Somewhere in my memory is an accident of GA airplane, (was it a Seneca?) that suffered partial peel-off of de-ice boot in front of aileron - resultant aerodynamic disturbance caused unrecoverable assymetric stall on approach - spin - fatal crash. and wing loading on 787 is way above any GA aircraft.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 11:57
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Hardly a “clean wing" any more! As above, goodbye laminar flow over a lot of the upper surface, which is why we’re so fastidious over contamination removal, especially regarding asymmetry. I’d take a bet that the fuel burn has gone up somewhat and the aerodynamic ceiling come down, too.

It may all be allowable but it’s not a good look...
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 14:35
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Originally Posted by Busbert View Post
The only grounds for a SAFA finding would be if the deferral was not in accordance with approved documentation and repeat inspection requirements were not captured in the aircraft maintenance log.
Yes, you are correct. Assume the 78 tech logs are electronic. Should be an entry for every patch and maintenance statement for the out of phase inspections. That would take some time to investigate out on a ramp check!
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 14:38
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Originally Posted by alf5071h View Post
Krystal, #6

The only reason for those wrinkles, and they are excessive, is poor application technique. Once the patch is cut to size, and in place, you simply ensure even pressure is applied and lo and behold, a smooth surface results.

Non professional use of speed tape suggests otherwise; there is rarely just one reason in human related activity.

Theses ‘patches’ are strips of tape, many of them; apparently with some span-wise overlap. The ‘wrinkles’ also radiate span-wise, across several strips of tape, which suggest extremely poor application or some other effect.

Not withstanding the rules and regulations of using tape, maintenance or inspection, the question at #5 relates to what exists, what is on that aircraft and is it a hazard.

Depending on scale, the wrinkles are similar to depictions of ‘runback’ icing, a significant hazard.

P.S. when applying tape - it does not tear easily or neatly, thus cut it. Before application, scissors etc, or cut with a knife through the tape down on to the paintwork !!!!
Knifes against Boeing's? A long time no no.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 14:55
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Originally Posted by hoistop View Post
There are requirements regarding aerodynamic smoothness in every AMM. (should be in ATA 51- Standard practices - structure) I am not familiar with 787 limits, but these wrinkles looks beyond acceptable to me. Not to think of what happens if a large patch of silvertape partially peels off, say, in front of aileron. Somewhere in my memory is an accident of GA airplane, (was it a Seneca?) that suffered partial peel-off of de-ice boot in front of aileron - resultant aerodynamic disturbance caused unrecoverable assymetric stall on approach - spin - fatal crash. and wing loading on 787 is way above any GA aircraft.
Concur with your statements.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 16:09
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Knifes against Boeing's? A long time no no.
Knives against any airframe structure is a no no!
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 16:25
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Originally Posted by teej013 View Post
When applying Speed Tape, I used to go over it with the back of a spoon to smooth it out and feather in the edges. With a bit of application you could get quite a good polished finish.
our engineers took great pride in ensuring all the speed tape patches looked nice on the B707F's ! .. smooth and shiny ... good for car repairs too
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 16:30
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It must go really fast with all that speed tape on it...
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 16:37
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Given it's been established the use of speed tape is an approved repair i.a.w SRM, what would be interesting to learn, is, what limitations are placed on the total surface area permitted to be covered and / or specifically defined area for small repairs.

With regard to the wrinkles, I stand by the poor application technique and would now also add, as has been mentioned, the cleanliness of the area prior to application.

I would also add, irrespective of type, I have never, ever, cut a piece of speed tape to size when it is in-situ on an airframe...it's not difficult to approximate the amount needed, cut from the roll, check, and then trim accordingly

The Tech Log entry was mentioned...and yes, it would make for interesting reading...even more interesting would be the name / stamp of whoever certified the repair(s) and certainly the one in question nearest to the fuselage.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 17:14
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Given it's been established the use of speed tape is an approved repair i.a.w SRM, what would be interesting to learn, is, what limitations are placed on the total surface area permitted to be covered and / or specifically defined area for small repairs.
Would be interesting to see what the 78 SRM says about allowable damage to surface finish and the limits before one goes to Boeing.Com.

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
With regard to the wrinkles, I stand by the poor application technique and would now also add, as has been mentioned, the cleanliness of the area prior to application.
Depends on what is the approved solvents one can use of the composite materials of a 78. Is MEK or FE10 useable to degrease? Does the surface finish break up like the badly applied resprays I see on my kites? Poor application by the hand crafted tear lines on the tape!

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
I would also add, irrespective of type, I have never, ever, cut a piece of speed tape to size when it is in-situ on an airframe...it's not difficult to approximate the amount needed, cut from the roll, check, and then trim accordingly
Too much service training there mate.

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
The Tech Log entry was mentioned...and yes, it would make for interesting reading...even more interesting would be the name / stamp of whoever certified the repair(s) and certainly the one in question nearest to the fuselage.
God Willing, propably.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 25th Apr 2022 at 17:27.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 17:33
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Knives against any airframe structure is a no no!
Indeed, amazing how many British mechanics I saw scraping off aerodynamic sealant with their metal scrapers when I first got out into the industry in 2008. Tended to be ex RAF types as well. Boeing had already come up with the posters about use of correct plastic scrappers to avoid the scribe lines found on many 73 lap joints. The poster in the stores where I saw it had already been modified to include the name of one of the worst culprits. My second job ever as a connie was to blend out the damage caused by a permie mechanic with his B and Q scrapper.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 17:39
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I find it very, very, very, hard to believe that what i am seeing in the picture is a repair conducted in accordance with the SMM……
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 18:11
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever View Post
I find it very, very, very, hard to believe that what i am seeing in the picture is a repair conducted in accordance with the SMM……
Boeing Technical services would possibly think the same. I would not be certifying it as a repeat inspection and would insist the worst patches would be reapplied by myself before I signed for it or mechanics under me would do so (alas I don't have that luxury). Done so a few times on the seven day turnaround inspections for temp repairs on my kites. Then again that amount of alloy tape is greater that the surface area of the mainplane of my type!

Last edited by Cat Techie; 25th Apr 2022 at 18:29.
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