BA 321 tail strike?

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by IcanCmyhousefromhere

Easy on there tiger, we are not all website savvy. I haven’t a clue myself on how to lookup such information. But I can do crosswind landings without twating the tail better then that!

Fair point, though my comment was aimed not at the OP but at the morons at BigJetTV, who reported it as a tail strike (without even a question mark) and who can hardly be accused of not being web-savvy. They could easily have checked.

[Denti]

Originally Posted by H Peacock

What’s with the inordinate delay in getting the gear up after the GA?

Baulked Landing Procedure: gear is not an immediate issue as both engines are still working, wait with that until safely out of harms way.

[olster]

The BBC 6 o clock news just showed the above clip. Apparently they announced with great authority and expertise that the ‘skill of the pilot’ saved the day. Who knew? Not how I would have described it but there you go.

[IcePack]

Airbus do complicate things when applying into wind ailerons. The deflection 1/2’s on touch down. Caught out Lufthansa a few years back. Also in low level gusts it is very difficult not to over control.

[RexBanner]

Originally Posted by Denti

Baulked Landing Procedure: gear is not an immediate issue as both engines are still working, wait with that until safely out of harms way.

How long was the delay before raising the gear? It’s not apparent from the clip on Big Jet TV, unless I go and search for the entire afternoon’s worth of footage and wind it back. Go Around near the ground in the FCOM only says to wait until the aircraft is safely established in the go around before retracting one stage of flaps and the gear. Not too much of a delay needed for that one.

[RTM Boy]

Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.

[V_2]

Originally Posted by RTM Boy

Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.

you might be seeing the exhaust from engine no1, which is also perfectly aligned at that moment. It’s hard to tell decisively

[eagle21]

Originally Posted by Greek God

Another thing that Airbus has trained out of operators: the input of up-wind aileron on a crosswind landing to keep the wing down and avoid exactly what happened!
Not that much margin on the tailstrike!!!

Airbus FCOM
"Additionally, the pilot will avoid setting stick into the wind as it increases the weathercock effect. Indeed, it creates a differential down force on the wheels into the wind side."
Boeing 737 FCOM
"As rudder is applied, the upwind wing sweeps forward developing roll. Hold wings level with simultaneous application of aileron control into the wind."

Andraz
Airbus has no buttons - you just firewall the thrust levers for TOGA

This quotation is incorrect as it only applies to the rollout in crosswind conditions (once the nose-wheel
is down)
Airbus does recommend exactly the opposite of what you suggested.

Airbus FCTM does say for a crosswind landing: LATERAL AND DIRECTIONAL CONTROL

FINAL APPROACH

In crosswind conditions, a crabbed-approach wings-level should be flown with the aircraft (cockpit) positioned on the extended runway centerline until the flare.

FLARE

• The objectives of the lateral and directional control of the aircraft during the flare are:
• To land on the centerline, and
• to minimize the lateral loads on the main landing gear.
• The recommended de-crab technique is to use all of the following:
• The rudder to align the aircraft with the runway heading during the flare
• The roll control, if needed, to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline. Any tendency to drift downwind should be counteracted by an appropriate lateral (roll) input on the sidestick.

In the case of strong crosswind, in the de-crab phase, the PF should be prepared to add small bank angle into the wind in order to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline. The aircraft may be landed with a partial de-crab (residual crab angle up to about 5 °) to prevent an excessive bank. This technique prevents wingtip/sharklet (or engine nacelle) strike caused by an excessive bank angle.

As a consequence, this may result in touching down with some bank angle into the wind (hence with the upwind landing gear first).

[4468]

Airbus FCOM
"Additionally, the pilot will avoid setting stick into the wind as it increases the weathercock effect. Indeed, it creates a differential down force on the wheels into the wind side."
Boeing 737 FCOM
"As rudder is applied, the upwind wing sweeps forward developing roll. Hold wings level with simultaneous application of aileron control into the wind."

Just to add to what eagle 21 wrote. In an Airbus, there’s no requirement to counteract the secondary effect of rudder (roll) with application of aileron as described in the 737 FCOM. FBW does that job. As far as the Airbus is concerned, lateral stick input is a roll demand. So it will simply add that demand to what it was already doing anyway! This is why it’s hilarious to watch pilots recently from Boeings trying to land Airbus in a crosswind!

What eagle 21 correctly quotes from Airbus is a roll input designed only to correct downwind drift across the runway due to the crosswind whilst established/establishing in the flare.

So, nothing to do with Airbus training anything out of operators. It’s just not how their product works, and in any event, what you see in the video is just as likely in a Boeing!

[tubby linton]

If there had been a tailstrike wouldn’t there have been a comment from atc and a runway inspection plus a local alert for the airfield. I didn’t see or hear any of that on the video.

[Auxtank]

Originally Posted by RTM Boy

Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.

Nope, the kicked up runway dust is the Outflow Valve venting and ground effect kicking some sh1t up.
Look V CLOSELY - there is no tail-strike.

It gets clean away - just.

And Just is clean enough.

She went on to complete her Rotation - and that wouldn't have happened if she'd dragged her arse.

[tubby linton]

It is also noticable that at the tails closest position to the runway the main wheels are actually off the ground.

[Black Pudding]

Can I ask, does anyone know what the wind was at the time of the event

[tubby linton]

Originally Posted by black pudding

can i ask, does anyone know what the wind was at the time of the event

a 31/01/2022 12:20->metar cor egll 311220z auto 34011g22kt 290v020 9999 ncd 08/m04 q1025 nosig=
sa 31/01/2022 11:50->metar cor egll 311150z auto 32017g27kt 300v020 9999 ncd 08/m03 q1025 nosig= sa 31/01/2022
11:20->metar cor egll 311120z auto 32014g24kt 9999 ncd 08/m02 q1024 nosig=

[punkalouver]

Pilots like to automatically target 15° nose up pitch attitude on a go-around without consideration of how close they are to the ground. A lower initial pitch while close to the ground could prevent a tailstrike. Then continue the pitch increase to 15°.

[Twiglet1]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Fair point, though my comment was aimed not at the OP but at the morons at BigJetTV, who reported it as a tail strike (without even a question mark) and who can hardly be accused of not being web-savvy. They could easily have checked.

Dave the guy was doing a live transmission so he was stating what he thought at the time. As for being morons - no need for such comments. Yes they might be not so savvy as you but they have donated any financials from the clip to a Pilots charity

[olster]

Airbus have a baulked landing procedure which targets an initial 10 degrees pitch for the reasons quoted near the ground. It has got a specific name as it is some time since I was involved with Airbus fbw types (A340/380). DaveReiduk is one of the self proclaimed PPRuNe ‘experts’ that swaggers around as though he owns the site. The classic keyboard warrior calling others morons. You have to laugh at the inanities of the Internet. Personally I have a lot of empathy with plane spotters: they are enthusiasts which is infectious. I was one in my youth and it led to a 40 year flying career. Fair play to them.

[olster]

‘Toga 10’ if my memory serves me well being an Airbus low altitude go around procedure. Current Airbus pilots can correct me.

[FlightDetent]

The baulked landing 10 deg pitch, sometimes called 'TOGA-10' was actively discontinued by the OEM years ago. Not sure it was truly their creation in the first place.

Pitch and power works. Which of them comes first defines how elegant is the transition towards the result. There is a reason we learn about the left side of the power required/available curve.

[Old Dogs]

Originally Posted by olster

DaveReiduk is one of the self proclaimed PPRuNe ‘experts’ that swaggers around as though he owns the site. The classic keyboard warrior calling others morons. You have to laugh at the inanities of the Internet. Personally I have a lot of empathy with plane spotters: they are enthusiasts which is infectious. I was one in my youth and it led to a 40 year flying career. Fair play to them.

Well said.