Pilot who turned up drunk to fly United Airlines Glasgow to Newark jailed
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Agree. A few beers on a layover is one of the jobs great pleasures.
I recently retired after almost 40 years in the game. There is and always has been a big drinking culture in aviation going back decades.
The good news for those in a moral panic over the issue is that its much better now than 30 years ago.
Here in Australia random breath-testing at sign-on has put a real dampener on big binges on layovers.
Doesn’t happen much , if ever , nowadays.
I recently retired after almost 40 years in the game. There is and always has been a big drinking culture in aviation going back decades.
The good news for those in a moral panic over the issue is that its much better now than 30 years ago.
Here in Australia random breath-testing at sign-on has put a real dampener on big binges on layovers.
Doesn’t happen much , if ever , nowadays.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Most airlines today probably have peer programs to address the problem, at least my employer does and we have regular briefings on the matter. Interestingly, there are surveys of alcoholism in high risk work environments where pilots are around 8%. Surgeons hit a staggering 25% which means you have a one in four chance that the guy who cuts you open in the hospital had a few too many. 
I think that there is a bit of sensationalism with the use of the word ‘drunk’, which implies a lot more than being over the legal limit for blood alcohol.
Not that I am excusing them though. They know the rules and the implications if caught breaking them, but I doubt they were actually drunk when they turned up for work.
Not that I am excusing them though. They know the rules and the implications if caught breaking them, but I doubt they were actually drunk when they turned up for work.
Wizofoz
A first time DUI in WA State is normally charged as a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of 364 days in jail and a $5000 fine. In all cases where a conviction is entered, there are mandatory minimum sentences, which a judge is required to impose and cannot reduce. Minimum jail time for a first offense is 24 hours.
A charge or conviction for a gross misdemeanor DUI can result in:
A first time DUI in WA State is normally charged as a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of 364 days in jail and a $5000 fine. In all cases where a conviction is entered, there are mandatory minimum sentences, which a judge is required to impose and cannot reduce. Minimum jail time for a first offense is 24 hours.
A charge or conviction for a gross misdemeanor DUI can result in:
- Jail time or electronic home monitoring (house arrest)
- Probation & fines
- Washington or out of state driver's license suspension
- Suspension of a commercial driver's license (CDL)
- WA SR-22 auto insurance (proof of financial responsibility certificate)
- Mandatory ignition interlock device
- Alcohol or drug treatment
- Wearing a SCRAM device (remote alcohol monitor)
There is a difference between "drunk" and "under the influence". Further, there really isn't a legal definition of 'drunk'. There are however legal definitions of "under the influence" - using based on blood alcohol levels. "Under the influence" means legal impaired.
I don't want to ride in any vehicle - car, bus, aircraft, etc. - where the person in control is legal impaired due to alcohol or other drugs. I seriously doubt many people would.
I don't want to ride in any vehicle - car, bus, aircraft, etc. - where the person in control is legal impaired due to alcohol or other drugs. I seriously doubt many people would.
@ stilton and alt-flieger Agree with 'responsible'.
Yes, when you have woken up at maybe 0300, driven to work, found somewhere to park, waited for the parking bus, queued up at the bag drop, made your way to the crew room, signed in, fixed the printer and printed off all the flight paperwork, read through all the NOTAMS and Met, looked at ETOPS alternates, made a fuel decision, brief the crew, go to security, take everything off and out of your bag, put it all back on, wait for the crew transport or walked miles to your stand, opened up the aircraft and/or met the engineers, discuss the aircraft and any MEL items, loaded up the route and performance, conducted a walk-around, met the agent, supervised the fuelling and loading, completed the load-sheet, closed-up, requested push back, taxiied and eventually taken off. Then SID, climb and routing out across the Ocean with weather, ETOPS, SLOP, fuel checks, position reports etc, etc,
5-8 hours later, contact with destination ATC, descent, STAR, approach, land, taxi in, and then go to the bag collection, crew transport, queuing for the hotel check-in, going up to your room, but the door key card doesn't work, so back to the front desk, etc, etc........ By the time you have done all that you are TIRED and jet lagged, but your brain is still buzzing.
After all that - which is a typical, normal day in long-haul land - it can be very difficult to wind down sufficiently in order to get to sleep, so some "assistance" is often useful.
The problem arises when the schedule gives you only minimum or close to minimum hours before having to get up again and operate back. Not really surprising that some individuals occasionally get the alcohol vs time equation slightly wrong. Note, I am not excusing it at all, but I can see how it might happen.
One answer is not to roster crews for bullets, and allow them at least a day to recharge before operating back, but obviously that is unlikely to happen.
Yes, when you have woken up at maybe 0300, driven to work, found somewhere to park, waited for the parking bus, queued up at the bag drop, made your way to the crew room, signed in, fixed the printer and printed off all the flight paperwork, read through all the NOTAMS and Met, looked at ETOPS alternates, made a fuel decision, brief the crew, go to security, take everything off and out of your bag, put it all back on, wait for the crew transport or walked miles to your stand, opened up the aircraft and/or met the engineers, discuss the aircraft and any MEL items, loaded up the route and performance, conducted a walk-around, met the agent, supervised the fuelling and loading, completed the load-sheet, closed-up, requested push back, taxiied and eventually taken off. Then SID, climb and routing out across the Ocean with weather, ETOPS, SLOP, fuel checks, position reports etc, etc,
5-8 hours later, contact with destination ATC, descent, STAR, approach, land, taxi in, and then go to the bag collection, crew transport, queuing for the hotel check-in, going up to your room, but the door key card doesn't work, so back to the front desk, etc, etc........ By the time you have done all that you are TIRED and jet lagged, but your brain is still buzzing.
After all that - which is a typical, normal day in long-haul land - it can be very difficult to wind down sufficiently in order to get to sleep, so some "assistance" is often useful.
The problem arises when the schedule gives you only minimum or close to minimum hours before having to get up again and operate back. Not really surprising that some individuals occasionally get the alcohol vs time equation slightly wrong. Note, I am not excusing it at all, but I can see how it might happen.
One answer is not to roster crews for bullets, and allow them at least a day to recharge before operating back, but obviously that is unlikely to happen.
Last edited by Uplinker; 4th Dec 2021 at 11:08.
tdracer
. A year in the clink in WA State at least gets heating, board and bed, and 3 squares for some citizens, could be an improvement.
If scheduling wouldn't send the US of A corn mash crews to the land of Glenfiddich, then the Sheriff of Paisley would have a reduced workload, and Scotland would need to find another alternative to the Hibbert curve of North Sea oil, and separation from the perfidious English.
Seriously, there. are have been historical issues with crew fitness (excluding the crews that take the proscribed glass of Vodka before a flight as it has medicinal attributes. Given the klunkers they were flying, it seemed to be reasonable, as was the safety brief, "we crash, you die. Any questions?" ). A breathalyzer before departing the hotel would appear to be a reasonable company response to human frailty. The company can deal with the fallout without the involvement of the old Baily or the constable or sheriff, and deal with the human issue without the catastrophic response. That assumes that intervention has a place in the restoration of an individual in society, which at least makes for a nice thought.
If the crew gets to the airport, to the plane or operates impaired then the law is there for good reason. The problem is, the person that is being asked to achieve the assurance and compliance is the very one that is impacted by imbibing the poison that our society seems to relish holding on to.
. A year in the clink in WA State at least gets heating, board and bed, and 3 squares for some citizens, could be an improvement. If scheduling wouldn't send the US of A corn mash crews to the land of Glenfiddich, then the Sheriff of Paisley would have a reduced workload, and Scotland would need to find another alternative to the Hibbert curve of North Sea oil, and separation from the perfidious English.Seriously, there. are have been historical issues with crew fitness (excluding the crews that take the proscribed glass of Vodka before a flight as it has medicinal attributes. Given the klunkers they were flying, it seemed to be reasonable, as was the safety brief, "we crash, you die. Any questions?" ). A breathalyzer before departing the hotel would appear to be a reasonable company response to human frailty. The company can deal with the fallout without the involvement of the old Baily or the constable or sheriff, and deal with the human issue without the catastrophic response. That assumes that intervention has a place in the restoration of an individual in society, which at least makes for a nice thought.
If the crew gets to the airport, to the plane or operates impaired then the law is there for good reason. The problem is, the person that is being asked to achieve the assurance and compliance is the very one that is impacted by imbibing the poison that our society seems to relish holding on to.
Not really: Can you have a drink the day before, two days before? How would you know if your body alcohol level was zero?
With a limit of zero, there would need to be a breathalyser or blood test for every pilot before every flight, otherwise the limit is meaningless.
With a limit of zero, there would need to be a breathalyser or blood test for every pilot before every flight, otherwise the limit is meaningless.
Drinks forbidden 12 hours before, and strongly discouraged 24 hours before. Pretty much guarantees zero alcohol in blood at time of flight, hence the easy computing. Says nothing about the hangover, though.
How is that different from a non-zero limit? It's more about airmanship than enforcement.
With a limit of zero, there would need to be a breathalyser or blood test for every pilot before every flight, otherwise the limit is meaningless.
I understand the problem with a 0.00% blood alcohol limit is that it can be normal to have some small amount of alcohol in the body due to normal metabolism, without having consumed alcohol.
Some folk can have serious problems with naturally produced background alcohol.
https://www.healthline.com/health/auto-brewery-syndrome
Foods can also contain alcohol. I think some authorities regard .02 as normal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421578/
https://www.healthline.com/health/auto-brewery-syndrome
Foods can also contain alcohol. I think some authorities regard .02 as normal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421578/
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I think that there is a bit of sensationalism with the use of the word ‘drunk’, which implies a lot more than being over the legal limit for blood alcohol.
Not that I am excusing them though. They know the rules and the implications if caught breaking them, but I doubt they were actually drunk when they turned up for work.
Not that I am excusing them though. They know the rules and the implications if caught breaking them, but I doubt they were actually drunk when they turned up for work.
Sorry but many of the contributors to the booze threads are self-righteous, non-pro pilots, and clueless. Having said that, turning up to fly above the 20 limit is also pretty clueless. Checking yourself on your own portable breathalyser would be a good practice. However, if above 20, the only practical choice of action is to go sick. (Or lose your job/career).
Anyone else done that?
Last edited by MissChief; 5th Dec 2021 at 23:32.
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Probably half the folk working at EDI were "drunk" if 40mg/100ml was the definition of drunk. Particularly in that neck of the woods. Interestingly, one cannot be a "drunk" driver, airside included, below 80mg/100ml.
Sorry but many of the contributors to the booze threads are self-righteous, non-pro pilots, and clueless. Having said that, turning up to fly above the 20 limit is also pretty clueless. Checking yourself on your own portable breathalyser would be a good practice. However, if above 20, the only practical choice of action is to go sick. (Or lose your job/career).
Anyone else done that?
Sorry but many of the contributors to the booze threads are self-righteous, non-pro pilots, and clueless. Having said that, turning up to fly above the 20 limit is also pretty clueless. Checking yourself on your own portable breathalyser would be a good practice. However, if above 20, the only practical choice of action is to go sick. (Or lose your job/career).
Anyone else done that?
I have a hard time understanding how one would NOT call sick in this case.
It never happened to me but I hope that if, for some reason, I woke up intoxicated for duty, I'd have the clarity of mind to call sick. Though I plan on never having to make that choice, also
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Start up checks
A breathalyser in the flight deck should be part of the start up checklist?
Did these guys actually get gaol time or was their sentences suspended?
who would have the balls to call in sick if over the limit? Obviously any sickness called in would severely mess up the schedule. I am assuming there is no standby crew in these outpost airports like GLA and EDi? Maybe they should give the flight Deck crew a two day layover instead of an overnight so that they have back up personnel available if someone goes sick
Did these guys actually get gaol time or was their sentences suspended?
who would have the balls to call in sick if over the limit? Obviously any sickness called in would severely mess up the schedule. I am assuming there is no standby crew in these outpost airports like GLA and EDi? Maybe they should give the flight Deck crew a two day layover instead of an overnight so that they have back up personnel available if someone goes sick
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I once misread my roster and headed out for a quiet beer with a friend. It turned into more than one and as a I climbed into bed and set my alarm I was mortified to read that I was supposed to be flying in the morning. I gave myself a talking to, set my alarm and called in sick when I awoke (albeit without the embarrassing explanation).
I was fortunate that this was at home base and could be easily covered. I would certainly like to think that I would have taken the same course of action on a layover though.
I forgive myself for making the mistake. I would not have forgiven myself for covering it up.
I was fortunate that this was at home base and could be easily covered. I would certainly like to think that I would have taken the same course of action on a layover though.
I forgive myself for making the mistake. I would not have forgiven myself for covering it up.
