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Kabul FIR still safe?

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Kabul FIR still safe?

Old 16th Aug 2021, 16:14
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Is it known if the Taliban have the necessary weapons at hand to pose a threat to high level overflights at this point in time? Would their number one priority not be to win and secure their positions on the ground? It might be argued that overflights are not yet in immediate danger.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 16:38
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Wouldn't you be relying too much on your TCAS and mk1 eyeball as there is no services available?
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 17:04
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No different to crossing some areas of Africa. Aircraft are able to communicate with each other and provide position reports.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 17:10
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Dunno about Africa, would there be military atc + multitude of military aircraft asking politely for you to go minding your business elsewhere?
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 18:07
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LH Group ist stopping Kabul FIR overflights due to unclear situation.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:39
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 22:01
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Reports are on C17 took off with 800 pax onboard. Wow….
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 22:08
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Must be so scary. Leaving your world with the clothes you have on and that's it. Probably quite a few with members of their family left behind. Awful business.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 02:11
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Of those 800 it looks like there are 700+ men... Interesting.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 04:06
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Given how few women could be seen in the video footage, it is possible that the ones seen here are the few who actually made it to the airport in the first place...

Also "women and children first" is a myth perpetuated by popular culture... stats say historically it's been otherwise, with children making up the largest figure of victims in for example's sake, shipwrecks.

Already reports of women of certain age being rounded up as "wives" for Taliban fighters... And they've supposedly "changed their views on women"
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 04:07
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Yes, though this was presumably on the controlled military ramp so one doesn't know to what extent these were the interpreters etc pre-selected by the military.
However the crowd scenes on the civilian side of the airport and on the runway seem to be almost exclusively healthy young adult males who apparently prefer to run rather than to defend their women and kids. I think Joe Biden made the same point last night. As someone pointed out above, echoes of Da Nang where Ed Daly's 727 mission to rescue women and children sadly ended up, after the fight to board, with something like 350 males,5 women and 3 children.

Last edited by Max Tow; 17th Aug 2021 at 04:31.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 05:33
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Can't imagine what the C17 flight crew would be saying at the time, as they were taxiing with hundreds right at the nose gear and clinging on the gear doors. They will remember that sortie forever.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 05:46
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There would be no clearances to overfly available and no separation provided, a mandatory broadcast frequency is more designed for picking up ATC errors rather than having pilots sort out things entirely by themselves.

Overflight charges are easy money and I'm sure the Taliban will want that source of income back asap.

The USA military provided some sort of ATC coverage in Somalia, so possibly having an AWACS deal with high level transit traffic would be possible.

I'm sure airlines overflying Afghanistan have been onto their insurance companies
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:47
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Turkish Air Force A400M ex Ankara Reg 17-0078 heading for Kabul at 14.11 local.
Carrying what I wonder ?
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:54
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There are more important issues to be considering here than snide sexist comments. Where has the COVID testing being done prior to boarding and why no masks? Do these people not care? Why is the military allowing this errant behaviour??

Militarily - I've read online (so of course it's true) 'safe passage' policy has been reneged on due to Biden's recent 'threats'. Collaborators and gays are being executed, Kabul is now closed and of course, the Taliban have SAM's.

If only someone could have had the foresight to see this might happen......

PS: RR & givemewings - I did too. Hilariously unfunny
PPS: VOCH - hopefully something very big....
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 14:50
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Best armchair guess - their mission is a humanitarian one, if they were trying to hide their position this might be taken as a contradiction? If (and hopefully it will not happen) any of the aircraft are threatened I expect the stance will change very rapidly.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 15:27
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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IFALPA Safety Bulletin

21sab141-ats-not-available-in-kabul-fir.pdf (ifalpa.org)
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 17:12
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You both have hit the nail smartly on the head.

The German A400M's (our wise ones called the C17 "too much aircraft" when Boeing offered it and again when Boeing rang the closing bell on its production run ... and I still weep) are to shuttle between Kabul and Tashkent. The first one last night uplifted 7 souls (at least the Corona spacing wasn't a worry.

But so anyway .. current news reports are saying that Lufthansa will tonight dispatch a A340-300 to TAS and a B747-? to DOH on behalf of the government. There were Germans on the US C17 to DOH, but never a B747s worth. I fear the first 300 or so Afghans will land in Germany by midday tomorrow. And indeed some may or will have magically de-aged mid air to arrive as 16 year olds.

I am not lacking compassion ... but it irks me to see "the system" abused like that (apart from the fact that it is abuseable in the first place) and makes me think "what a way to start your new life - with a lie". Don't want to drift off though (this not being Jet Blast).
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 18:34
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This has been doing the rounds since last night (cant vouch for accuracy) but the contents do seem to correlate with the other public information out there ( I cant post URLs yet but Twitter and DanLamothe status ) from the infamous flight.

Text of the document is:
(U) Aircraft Callsign: RCH885; tail number: 2-1109;
type: C17A; departed Hamid Karzai International
Airport (OKAB) at 07112 after it was delayed by a
crowd of local nationals attempting to board the
aircraft by any means necessary. After departure,
the crew through aircraft inspection windows,
noticed that a body appeared to be stuck in the
right wheel well of the aircraft. An IFE was
declared at 10582 for a landing gear malfunction
and possible stowaway. Emergency response
personnel met the aircraft upon landing. Fire
Department confirmed a body was found wedged
against the wheel well of the aircraft with a hand
and foot jammed in retractable elements of the
landing gear doors/mechanisms. Post flight
inspection revealed what appears to be elements
of human remains in the left wheel well also. A
search of the approach corridor to AUAB
uncovered a human hand. This , coupled with air
traffic control tower reports, suggests a second
stowaway similarly attempted to board the aircraft
but departed sometime between departure from
HKIA and arrival in AUAB. Searches of the
approach corridor to AUAB continue with the
assistance of the Qatari government. The crew of
RCH885 departed the aircraft and is currently
being evaluated by Medical and Mental Health
Teams.
Im unable to post URLs so cant link to the actual source but Twitter ghpitboss message 1427457839266676738 should find it.

Posting without comment as related information only.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 20:42
  #40 (permalink)  
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Was the taxiing aircraft, with people trying to get on board, the same one that was filled with the refugees and trying to depart?
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