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A350 pilot startled by windshear alarm

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A350 pilot startled by windshear alarm

Old 15th Jul 2021, 16:02
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A350 pilot startled by windshear alarm

French investigators have detailed how a French Bee Airbus A350-900 sharply deviated from the missed-approach pattern at Paris Orly, when one of its pilots was startled and temporarily incapacitated just after an unexpected windshear alarm.
Aviation Herald article
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 16:37
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Descended to 1200’ msl and 290 knots.
Who is allowing this level of incompetence to be in control?
Truly worrying.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 16:39
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Having two extra pilots on the flight deck did not seem to help.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 19:36
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I guess all that CRM, Type and sim training didnít work. The fellow flying didnít know that the autopilot was disconnected even though he was the person who deselected it? The Capt was basically flying solo when he took control after the overshoot.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 20:57
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This looks like a great argument for non-manned cockpit
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 21:31
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This is the product of today's zero to hero flight training. They can program the crap out of the box but can't really fly airplanes all that well. AF447, OZ214 are only two examples of incompetence in the cockpit. United Airlines is on record saying their pilot hiring will prioritize race and gender over flying experience and qualifications. The FAA and international counterparts have lost all credibility. Scary times ahead.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 21:34
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its the future, like it or not
we should all just man up and face it
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 22:18
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No pilots to startle if there’s no pilots in the flight deck to begin with, amirite?
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 22:38
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no pilots in flight deck and no flight deck either, technically...
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 22:50
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That's a lot of fiddling on the FCU so close to the ground after a go around, when a simple pitch and power datum to quickly recall would have made it easier. But I am not qualified on any Airbus so I stand down from further commenting on this.

But maybe I am wrong, I am not trying to Monday quarterback this. If it happened to them, it can happen to me and anybody else as well.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 22:52
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Dorf

You don't know the background of the pilots involved in this event. In that company there is a high number of former Air Force and Navy pilots. Far from the zero to hero flight training program you allude to.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 23:29
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This was an alert to wind shear ahead which simply required a normal missed approach, rather than a wind shear encounter which requires memory items to be applied. The startle effect in an actual encounter is far greater and requires the aircraft to be accurately flown manually with the co pilot in the loop calling out the wind so they know when they can resume normal flight.

AUTO TCAS is available on newer Airbus aircraft, perhaps wind shear needs an automatic response from the aircraft as well. This isn't what I would expect to see from a crew in charge of any commercial jet, let alone an A350.
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 00:01
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Don't think I've ever seen anyone say it won't happen in the future. But it's not going to happen with today's technology, or anytime soon in my opinion.
It will equire true AI to completely replace pilots, once we have true AI all jobs can be done by machines
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 02:16
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In that company there is a high number of former Air Force and Navy pilots.
Not necessarily a good combination for a commercial airliner. Cockpit gradient can be influenced by a carry over of military culture. After a brief skim of the AvHerad article it looks like the F/O was still trying to control things after the Captain took over. Startle effect and poorly handled go arounds are nothing new and unless there is a clear statement of who is control then you have two pilots trying to recover the situation. In this case there was a third pilot who was talking to the F/O. Eventually the the Captain said "everyone silent" which seemed to restore order. The airline I am with has been using the sim to develop strategies to overcome startle effect and to look at the physical reaction a person experiences when faced with an unexpected event. In the report it is labelled as cognitive incapacitation. This is not limited to Airbus products, there have been plenty of examples of mishandled go arounds in Boeings.
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 05:56
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Dorf

Can you provide the evidence of the United statement or are you making this up?
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 07:33
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https://hub.united.com/2021-04-06-un...651374725.html
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 07:57
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Probably another case of playing piano on Airbus mcp ...
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 08:01
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Well they are going to have to doorknock to find them. The issue is that flying is not attractive as a career except to dumb ass white males. Don't ask me to scientifically prove it but the fact that most pilots in western based airlines are white males is not because there is some discriminatory process, in fact aviation would have to be the least discriminatory as if you have the license and the hours and a pulse then you are all they want. The simple truth is females tend not to be attracted to the pointy end. There does not seem to be any shortage of female ATCers so aviation does attract females just not into the flight deck.
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 08:08
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There are procedural lapses and psychologists are having a field day. Sudden wind sheer warning in normal weather may cause a surprise but causing cognitive incapacitation is not very digestible. Then what wil happen in Hudson case, unreliable speed or in sever upset is unthinkable. The capt who was PM suffered from automation dependency. The AP had not tripped but was disconnected and they forgot. Normal principle is when you dial something on FCU you confirm appropriate aircraft reaction. That's what you do in EMER DES, TCAS or GPWS or even turning to avoid weather. This is a case of automation dependency which develops in time and degrades the scan and people get caught. This is what happened A320 Bangalore, B777 SFO, A321 in Islamabad. In first two they blindly believed in ATHR and allowed their speed to drop badly and in Islamabad the capt took for granted heading mode and dialling in NAV mode till Hdg went past 180, then on sudden realization pulled heading, the aircraft turned shorter way into the hills. So after AF447 A350 has automatic unreliable speed change over, it has automatic EMER DES, auto TCAS. So next will be automatic wind sheer manoeuvre.
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Old 16th Jul 2021, 08:09
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[Pax]. 'The captain had just put his hand on the sidestick when the copilot probably extended the speedbrakes without calling this out'

The copilot, confronted with the surprise effect in connection with the unexpected triggering of the predictive windshear warning, the change in the rate of work and the increased workload was then “absent” for a few minutes.

Well one or the other. Is there a role for speedbrakes in a windshear go around? [Pax].
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