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A350 pilot startled by windshear alarm

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A350 pilot startled by windshear alarm

Old 17th Jul 2021, 23:13
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I average about one go around per year and whilst it's practiced regularly in the simulator I've learnt not to rely on correct actions from the F/O every time, often due to inexperience and startle effect.

When I go around it's with the expectation that I'll have to do the whole thing myself and any assistance from the right seat is a bonus.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 00:49
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One of the reasons my outfit started briefing go-arounds with every approach brief. We had a spat of badly handled go-arounds that needed a solution. Now we get to talk about it before every landing, including what triggers it, the call outs PM/PF actions, departure direction (missed app depiction or visual with tower?) altitude etc.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 03:53
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A good practice is to brief the actions, not just the chart. Especially in windy conditions. Ask your junior colleagues what they would do in the event of.... Same applies to a rapid decomp if you're in the loo or an engine failure in cruise. Then feedback the responses to the training department
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 06:02
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Hi safetypee

This is all well intended, but you just lost your FO ...
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 07:26
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One of the best design features on the (ancient technology now) 757 is when you engage GA on the AT it doesn’t go to max power but just enough to give you 2000FPM which is plenty when your level off is likely quite close, it also keeps the pitch change to a minimum


I found this really helped to keep go arounds much calmer and easier to manage
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 08:26
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In almost 40 years in aviation and over 20,000 hrs of flight time I have had 2 significant failures.
A catastrophic engine failure and an airspeed unreliable.
The startle factor was huge.
I lived to tell the tale because of;

1. Experience , including lots of single Pilot night freight in a turboprop. (You cant buy that nowadays.)
2. Excellent training ( including some with your mob tdracer.)
3. A highly competent F/O in the right hand seat.

This thread and others leaves me a little despairing.
Do newbies take the profession of Pilot seriously?

Auto Windshear protection ?
Auto TCAS protection ?
Auto Emergency Descent protection ?
Flight Director into the flare ?
Really ?

Maybe I’ll start taking the train………
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 08:41
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Yeah, because the Boeing product is a shining example of quality and engineering excellence.!
You mean like the B737 Max or 787 fuselage issue or even the 777X which is getting delayed. FAA doesn't see eye to eye with Boeing after they were taken for a ride with MAX.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 09:01
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Originally Posted by TukwillaFlyboy View Post
Do newbies take the profession of Pilot seriously?
No they don't. I'm shocked to see how many pilots love the fact the job is becoming more and more automated. I'm actually sick of watching these guys never hand flying and using AP from 500 feet AGL down to 500 feet or less before touch down in CAVOK conditions when our outfit allows flying raw data. To be fair to them, some have been brainwashed by some so called instructors who push them to use automation all the time... If they could engaged the AP for take off until entering the gate they will happily do it. Of course not all of them but a lot of pilots now don't care about actually flying the plane. They just do it for the money. They barely know how to hand fly for most of them anyway. So sad... I'm flying the A320 now I love this aircraft very much but I would prefer to fly a 707 or something with less automatism to be honest. But these guys they would rather fly the A350 cause it will do the emergency descent and brake to vacate for themselves. Lol
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 09:12
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A good gambit for go-arounds is for PF to re-brief it just before doing it :

"If I have to call 'go-around flap' I will set TOGA and pitch up to 15°. I will read out the FMA. You will set flap, check thrust and vertical speed, and call positive climb. I will call gear up, you will check speed-brake is in. Missed approach ALT is set: xxxx. OK?........Right....Go-Around".

Even simply telling PM what memory drill you are going to call, immediately before actually calling it, gives PM a head's-up :

"Ready for windshear memory drill?.........Windshear TOGA".

Last edited by Uplinker; 18th Jul 2021 at 09:48.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 09:45
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@Tukwillaflyboy ,
i remember when i start flying , the old guys in the DC-9 put a specific amount of attitude in the artificial horizon , and a nanosecond later the cross bar of the flight director converge at that specific point , to them the f/d was just a confirmation of their set-up , today if you remove it or ask to fly without it’s panic .
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 13:13
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Stilton

Isn’t this a standard function on the Boeing WB’s from the 757/767 onwards? The 787 had it.

Airbus now has it as an option - Soft GA or some such thing.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 13:26
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UPLINKER
"Ready for windshear memory drill?.........Windshear TOGA"
Are you serious?
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:26
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And the 747. Common sense 2000 climb
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:28
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Absolutely. I pre brief all potential windsheer go arounds, or when ATC seems to be monkeying about with crossing or lining up traffic. As much for my benefit as the 350 hour numpty sat next to me in a jumbo.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:37
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hec7or may have benefitted from being the PM instead of the PF. If you think about it, the PM usually has more time to asses the big picture, and by the time he’s called for a GA, already is a few steps ahead, while the PF who’s struggling with the difficult approach is only keeping up.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:42
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Uplinker

Agree with your last statement. Training should minimise or eliminate adverse effects of being startled.

I’ll repost what I posted on the other thread:

Under stress, you will not rise to the occasion- instead, you will sink to your level of proficiency.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:51
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On all approaches, I mentally used to self brief ....... "this a go around to a possible landing" (takes ALL the stress and startle factor out of it) and at the FAF/OM I would mentally run through the drill for the GA. If there was any possibility of a GA I would share my self briefs with the copilot.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:55
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I've heard this before but being on edge all the time has negative effects too and it sucks the fun out of the job, no?
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 16:15
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Nonsense, you're average PM FO is not going through that thought process. Just how soon he can turn his phone on after landing to check his what's apps, all dependant on the Captain's mood.

Im my humble experience.
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Old 18th Jul 2021, 16:17
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Good Business Sense

Absolutely, that's the ticket.
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