B-737 Cargo Plane down in Hawaii
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Good interview with the US Coast Guard flight crew:
And the rescue crew:
both interviews are refreshingly low on idiotic news anchor banter. Sounds like they arrived just in time and the 737 crew asking for USCG may have saved at least one of their lives. I'm familiar with the area; it's a shame they couldn't make JRF (Kalaeloa Airport, former Barbers Point NAS). It was only a few miles away (but a hard left turn from their heading of about 040 to 290). 6000 foot runway with open space at the far end in case of an overrun. In their favor was only a light swell (according to the rescue swimmer), mild air and water temperatures, the city lights were a good reference, and emergency responders and medical facilities were minutes away. Still an amazing job by crews of both aircraft!!
And the rescue crew:
both interviews are refreshingly low on idiotic news anchor banter. Sounds like they arrived just in time and the 737 crew asking for USCG may have saved at least one of their lives. I'm familiar with the area; it's a shame they couldn't make JRF (Kalaeloa Airport, former Barbers Point NAS). It was only a few miles away (but a hard left turn from their heading of about 040 to 290). 6000 foot runway with open space at the far end in case of an overrun. In their favor was only a light swell (according to the rescue swimmer), mild air and water temperatures, the city lights were a good reference, and emergency responders and medical facilities were minutes away. Still an amazing job by crews of both aircraft!!
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With all that jet fuel in the water and one guy clinging to a piece of the cargo, plus the observation of the tail section sinking, it would be logical to conclude the plane did not remain intact.
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The initial and somewhat generously subtitled request to return at 0:35 was missed by the controller (switching frequencies?) but so was the somewhat more clearly expressed one (but not PAN/mayday) at 0:50.
The thing that stood out for me aside from the absence of a PAN/mayday call (assuming nothing was missed by the scanner as has been known to happen) was the number of times that both parties said something (request/directive) which seemed to require a prompt response/readback from the other but then continued with additional information/direction which led to transmissions crossing. This got quite dicey at 1:30 when the emergency aircraft stepped on tower's attempt to route company out of their way and assumed the heading was for them.
USA crews seem to have an aversion to saying "Mayday". This has come up many times before. Is it even in their training ?
The TV interviews with the Coast Guard crew were excellent, especially as they must have been unscripted, and showed a team right on top of the job. The probably junior interviewer did well not looking to self-promote but just letting the crew tell it all. In contrast the supplementary questions from the supposedly more senior studio anchors were banal.
The rescue crew flight mechanic seems to have a prominent badge on her uniform which includes a UK Union Flag. Anyone recognise what it is ?
Unless it's been re-engined in recent times, this 737 airframe had JT8D-9A engines.
The TV interviews with the Coast Guard crew were excellent, especially as they must have been unscripted, and showed a team right on top of the job. The probably junior interviewer did well not looking to self-promote but just letting the crew tell it all. In contrast the supplementary questions from the supposedly more senior studio anchors were banal.
The rescue crew flight mechanic seems to have a prominent badge on her uniform which includes a UK Union Flag. Anyone recognise what it is ?
Unless it's been re-engined in recent times, this 737 airframe had JT8D-9A engines.
Last edited by WHBM; 3rd Jul 2021 at 12:21.
Such a shame they flew so far away from the useable tarmac after the very early loss of their first engine! I guess they perceived the need to secure the failed engine and then plan and brief a more sedate return until they realised it was a somewhat more serious issue.
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HNL ATC is quite often a shiiite show, sad to say. They do some asinine things for noise abatement there. Plus, the usual idiocy of one controller working 2-4 frequencies with no repeater for the other crews listening.
I really wish ATC could refrain from making transmissions containing 4-5 instructions, especially in emergencies.
I really wish ATC could refrain from making transmissions containing 4-5 instructions, especially in emergencies.
AndiKunzi
Possibly over temp on the subsequent restart.
I don’t remember anything about 73 systems anymore and limitations.
Chance they were working a fuel imbalance and had a cross feed valve open and starved the #1 engine?
Possibly over temp on the subsequent restart.
I don’t remember anything about 73 systems anymore and limitations.
Chance they were working a fuel imbalance and had a cross feed valve open and starved the #1 engine?
WHBM
"Unless it's been re-engined in recent times, this 737 airframe had JT8D-9A engines."
Yes, I believe that's correct. It certainly had the -9A for the first 20 years of its life with PWA and Canadi@n.
While all the 737s being produced at the time it was built (1975) were designated as Advanced and incorporated all the relevant aerodynamic mods, operators still had the (presumably cheaper) option of specifying the -7/-7A/-7B/-9/-9A, if desired, rather than the uprated variants.
Whether or not that turns out to be a factor in what happened remains to be seen.
"Unless it's been re-engined in recent times, this 737 airframe had JT8D-9A engines."
Yes, I believe that's correct. It certainly had the -9A for the first 20 years of its life with PWA and Canadi@n.
While all the 737s being produced at the time it was built (1975) were designated as Advanced and incorporated all the relevant aerodynamic mods, operators still had the (presumably cheaper) option of specifying the -7/-7A/-7B/-9/-9A, if desired, rather than the uprated variants.
Whether or not that turns out to be a factor in what happened remains to be seen.
B2N2
Highly unlikely they had a fuel balance that required any attention. Standard training is to ignore fuel balance on a immediate return to the airport as it can’t get far enough out of balance on a flight under a hour to be a issue.
Highly unlikely they had a fuel balance that required any attention. Standard training is to ignore fuel balance on a immediate return to the airport as it can’t get far enough out of balance on a flight under a hour to be a issue.
568
Sorry, apparently I wasn't clear - the mention of FADEC was regarding newer engines which do have electronic protection of rotor speeds and burner pressure. The JT8D is purely hydromechanical and only has N2 redline protection (basically a flyball governor) and some sort of rudimentary burner pressure protection.
My point was that even with the fancy new FADEC engine controls, we don't limit for EGT (except perhaps during starting) because exceeding EGT redline is primarily economic damage - it would not cause the engine to experience an uncontained failure which could endanger the aircraft (which may occur with a rotor speed or burner pressure exceedance).
Sorry, apparently I wasn't clear - the mention of FADEC was regarding newer engines which do have electronic protection of rotor speeds and burner pressure. The JT8D is purely hydromechanical and only has N2 redline protection (basically a flyball governor) and some sort of rudimentary burner pressure protection.
My point was that even with the fancy new FADEC engine controls, we don't limit for EGT (except perhaps during starting) because exceeding EGT redline is primarily economic damage - it would not cause the engine to experience an uncontained failure which could endanger the aircraft (which may occur with a rotor speed or burner pressure exceedance).
WHBM,
Most US crews flying domestically (to include Hawaii) declare an “Emergency” as opposed to Mayday. If I were outside the US I’d use “May
day” inside I’d use “Emergency” they are interchangeable. Perhaps the terminology should be standardized. The Pilot did declare an “Emergency” but too much talking on the ATC frequency garbled up his transmission.
Most US crews flying domestically (to include Hawaii) declare an “Emergency” as opposed to Mayday. If I were outside the US I’d use “May
day” inside I’d use “Emergency” they are interchangeable. Perhaps the terminology should be standardized. The Pilot did declare an “Emergency” but too much talking on the ATC frequency garbled up his transmission.
I see the BBC have got round to, as usual, describing the 737 as having "plunged"
Pilot remarkably calm as his Boeing 737 plunges into sea - BBC News
I would have thought their rate of descent was anything but ...
Pilot remarkably calm as his Boeing 737 plunges into sea - BBC News
I would have thought their rate of descent was anything but ...