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B-737 Cargo Plane down in Hawaii

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B-737 Cargo Plane down in Hawaii

Old 2nd Jul 2021, 18:56
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Regardless of the cause and subsequent damage to the aircraft-seriously good job living through a night ditching at sea!

hope they’re recovering well.
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Old 2nd Jul 2021, 19:35
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ALM flight 980, a Dc-9-30, also had to ditch near St.Croix in 1970 after running out of fuel - with 23 fatalities and 40 survivors.
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Old 2nd Jul 2021, 19:42
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May 1970, Overseas National DC9-33 ditched off of St. Croix from fuel exhaustion, 40 survived with 23 fatalities. ONA was operating for ALM on a JFK-SXM flight.
Again, depending on how you define successful...
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Old 2nd Jul 2021, 20:50
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A couple of images but as clear as mud.

https://newsbinding.com/uk-news/its-...-off-honolulu/

Rescue video and rescue crew giving details.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/0...scue-off-oahu/

When a Coast Guard helicopter crew arrived at the scene of the crash, one of the cargo plane’s pilots was on the tip of the downed craft’s tail while the other was bobbing in the water on a cargo load.

There was also a large oil slick in the area and lots of debris.

“We first saw a man waving his hands from the tail of the airplane,” said Coast Guard Lt. Gleb Borovok. “Another man was floating on a bed of cargo.” Borovok said the crew planned to first rescue the pilot in the water.

But in a matter of seconds, the tail disappeared and the man who had been there was in the water vigorously swimming and appearing to have trouble.

The team decided to deploy a rescue swimmer to the pilot in the water first.
It sounds like someone upstairs was looking after them.

Last edited by NutLoose; 2nd Jul 2021 at 21:02.
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Old 2nd Jul 2021, 21:02
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Gotta give that guy with the accent credit for maintaining a pretty chill stress level with the “let the coast guard know” “thank you very much” “310, thank you”
So his last transmission was “thank you” at about 100’ and about to ditch at night in the ocean.
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Old 2nd Jul 2021, 21:15
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Wonder what they concluded about the overheating on #1 as they were working the list.... Another symptom that may point in the direction of fuel and fuel handling.
They never got more than 2000 feet of altitude to work with either. Tough CRM challenge over open water.

Last edited by TachyonID; 2nd Jul 2021 at 22:14. Reason: Failure to include fuel considerations
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 00:25
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Originally Posted by tdracer
I'd be looking real close at any recent maintenance activities.
Or the fuel being contaminated? DEF, perhaps?

Last edited by galaxy flyer; 3rd Jul 2021 at 00:59.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 00:32
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Birds could be a possibility, as well as fuel contamination. Even leaving the oil caps off or forgetting to replace "O" rings (Eastern 855).

I certainly wouldn't want to be the last one who signed it off.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 01:16
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TACA 110 had a dual engine failure from flameout, and subsequent overheating after relight after flying through heavy weather. Too much water in the donks from memory.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 01:34
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Originally Posted by krismiler
Birds could be a possibility, as well as fuel contamination. Even leaving the oil caps off or forgetting to replace "O" rings (Eastern 855).

I certainly wouldn't want to be the last one who signed it off.
Well, not really, take the possibility of fuel contamination for example; that would be nothing to do with the individual signing the aircraft off for service.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 01:41
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I can’t see what possible type of contamination would make it run hot unless it was something like avgas, and no one else appears to have had a problem. But no point guessing, hopefully they will recover enough to figure it out.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 01:47
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Fuel contamination usually takes longer than a few minutes to have much effect - even av gas would be unlikely to take out the engines that fast. The JT8D is also unlikely to be severely affected by a bird strike (inlet guide vanes - which help protect the rotating bits from birds and the like).
Whatever it was, it happened fast...

Last edited by tdracer; 3rd Jul 2021 at 03:05.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 02:02
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Couldn't really make out if the crew said anything about the first engine failure but the second was overheating so they had to back off on the power and from then on kept losing altitude. Assuming the second engine overheating was not related to the first engine failing (except that higher power would be needed for single engine op), what would be the likely cause of engine overheat at sea level and about 73F temperature? Engine beyond time for overhaul? Remembering back in history, UA insisted on having 3 JT8D's when Boeing was developing an airliner smaller than the 707 due to their Denver hub being hot and high. When the 737 came into play, I remember some of those July and August days with Denver's temp around 110 and wondering if 737s were ever going to rotate. This was a 737A so it had the higher thrust engines when it left the factory but how much is the thrust loss when they reach time for overhaul?
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 02:21
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I hear what you're saying but a Hot 'N High power degrading versus a loss of altitude running away to what looked like an inevitable swimming event due to single engine lack of thrust to even maintain level would keep my throttle hand in the very forward position regardless of instrument indications. No?

Sounds to me like the thrust loss was far greater than that which would be associated with atmospheric conditions, after all single engine ops on those donks and that frame (unless loaded too heavy) are within the loop of what we appear to have here.
So something else in the mix?
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 03:09
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Originally Posted by Auxtank
I hear what you're saying but a Hot 'N High power degrading versus a loss of altitude running away to what looked like an inevitable swimming event due to single engine lack of thrust to even maintain level would keep my throttle hand in the very forward position regardless of instrument indications. No?
Assuming they were talking high EGT, yes, I'd ignore an EGT over redline if the alternative was ditching (after all, it's not like there's going to be a usable engine left after a salt water landing). We even design for that with FADEC - the FADEC will limit thrust for rotor speed redline and burner pressure redline (since exceeding those can result in uncontained failures), but the FADEC only limits EGT during starting. After it's running, we figure if the EGT is over redline and the pilot is leaving it there, they probably have a real good reason...
So something was going on besides just high EGT.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 03:23
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Biocide

With COVID there's been a rash of dual engine failures due to improper use of biocides. Wonder if there's any risk of Jet-A contamination from mix-ups in the fuel depot there at HNL?

(dot.) flightglobal (dot.) com/safety/biocide-overdose-blunder-suspected-in-a321-dual-engine-incident/138004.article

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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 03:55
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It will be interesting to hear the outcome of this one. Many possibilities to look at.

On the topic of fuel contamination leading to dual engine issues, over a decade ago now, a Cathay Pacific A330 experienced fuel contamination. An amazing effort by the flight crew to get her on the ground.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_Pacific_Flight_780 or full investigation report here for those interested - Cathay Pacific Flight 780 HKCAD report

Thoughts to the two pilots in making a full recovery.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 04:15
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Couple of observations;

That ATCer was so unprofessional, she jumped on his transmissions so many times.

All very well for the pilot to be polite and say you had better let the Coast Guard know and thanks; but where was the Mayday call? This omission led the ATCer to have no sense of the drama unfolding and she continued to clear a/c in and out of the airport. Did that pilot in all his sims never get told to declare a Mayday? I don't think he even said Emergency. Also she told him about Kalaeloa airport when he was heading NE and gave him a steer there only to seconds later tell him you might have to turn the lights on yourself. AYFKM?

On one donk, I don't care what the temp gauges say, I'm heading for a runway I know is nearby and using whatever thrust I need.

Despite that well done to put it in the drink at night and survive the splashdown. It seems the crew member on the sinking tailplane was lucky to survive as he was flailing in the water according to the Coast Guard just before they sent a swimmer down.

It will be a very interesting report.
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 04:31
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Couldn't really make out if the crew said anything about the first engine failure but the second was overheating so they had to back off on the power and from then on kept losing altitude.
SLF here, but why would a pilot even be concerned with overheating if the only choice was to continue flying or hit the water? What have you got to lose?
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 04:56
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Originally Posted by Winemaker
SLF here, but why would a pilot even be concerned with overheating if the only choice was to continue flying or hit the water? What have you got to lose?
Rapid disassembly of an engine, such as it exploding, would make the situation possibly even more challenging? They had max alt of 2,000ft, it was dark, they didn't have the luxuary of a quiet, warm environment with plenty of time on their hands from which to dilerberate such things!
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