Mid Air in the US
Think there's a mixup between planes, sounds more to me that the Cessna was the solo.
The video that mentions first solo is even titled "This all happened during my first student solo at KAPA. I was flying in N65251 and reported pulled chute and location of downed cirrus"
The video that mentions first solo is even titled "This all happened during my first student solo at KAPA. I was flying in N65251 and reported pulled chute and location of downed cirrus"
Originally Posted by Roundsounds
The only thing that seems to be missing was an effective lookout. A lookout completes the “Alerted see and avoid” traffic avoidance method. There’s way too much reliance on ATC and technology, a proper lookout scan and Situational Awareness (mental picture of surrounding traffic) will prevent these types of accident.
Originally Posted by Koran
The controller then cleared the Cirrus to land and pointed out the Metroliner as additional traffic going on approach to the parallel and the Cirrus pilot reported it in sight.
Originally Posted by bcflyer
The Cirrus pilot overshoots the centreline of both runways
bcflyer
Furthermore, it would appear that ATC did not pass the SR22 traffic to the Metro. Given they were going to be close (so close that they eventually hit each other), the Metro should have got traffic on the SR22. I certainly wouldn't like to be flying down final on a 200m parallel with an aeroplane right beside me without watching them closely.
Furthermore, it would appear that ATC did not pass the SR22 traffic to the Metro. Given they were going to be close (so close that they eventually hit each other), the Metro should have got traffic on the SR22. I certainly wouldn't like to be flying down final on a 200m parallel with an aeroplane right beside me without watching them closely.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 13th May 2021 at 13:06. Reason: Removed incorrect hypothesis re ATC.
Given that they were converging, with the Metroliner just below the Cirrus (as it hit the top), it could be one of those unfortunate occurrences where a) there was a constant relative bearing, and b) the nose of the SR22 might have partially or wholly obscured the view of the Metroliner.
The SR22 pilot would have likely been concentrating more on the runway than anything else, same goes for the other pilot. Short finals is a classic area for conflict: it’s not at all uncommon for aircraft to get really close without realising, especially when one is just above/below the other.
The SR22 pilot would have likely been concentrating more on the runway than anything else, same goes for the other pilot. Short finals is a classic area for conflict: it’s not at all uncommon for aircraft to get really close without realising, especially when one is just above/below the other.
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I read elsewhere that the Cirrus groundspeed on base was something like 186 kts ... if that's true it seems a little "hot" and probably a good reason for screwing the pooch on the final turn?
Obviously the Cirrus was belly-up on the Metroliner and most likely never saw him as he probably was fixating on the runway on his right side to correcti his overshoot.
Capn Bloggs
Two different frequencies I think, that was typical at KAPA when I flew there. The west runway (17R in this case) and all the T&G aircraft stay on it, then the east runway has the aircraft arriving and departing from KAPA. Notice the one video shows TWR East and TWR West.
Two different frequencies I think, that was typical at KAPA when I flew there. The west runway (17R in this case) and all the T&G aircraft stay on it, then the east runway has the aircraft arriving and departing from KAPA. Notice the one video shows TWR East and TWR West.
Last edited by mnttech; 13th May 2021 at 11:34.
FullWings
The Cirrus prop seems to be undamaged. At least it does not show the sort of damage that would be expected if it had passed through the fuselage of the Metro. The left wing of the Cirrus seems to have hit high on the Metro's tail. I'd speculate that the Cirrus was in an aggressive pull up when it hit.
I'm taking an interest in the accident because I fly at an airport with a similar environment - parallel runways, separate tower frequencies, and lots of student traffic. The only good thing about the COVID pandemic is that there has been a significant reduction in student activity.
The Cirrus prop seems to be undamaged. At least it does not show the sort of damage that would be expected if it had passed through the fuselage of the Metro. The left wing of the Cirrus seems to have hit high on the Metro's tail. I'd speculate that the Cirrus was in an aggressive pull up when it hit.
I'm taking an interest in the accident because I fly at an airport with a similar environment - parallel runways, separate tower frequencies, and lots of student traffic. The only good thing about the COVID pandemic is that there has been a significant reduction in student activity.
Parallel runways closer than some UK taxyways are to their runway.
Different radio frequencies for each.
Traffic including basic-level students brought in side by side without any stagger.
How do they manage without this happening regularly ?
Different radio frequencies for each.
Traffic including basic-level students brought in side by side without any stagger.
How do they manage without this happening regularly ?
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For goodness sake, it has already been explained above that the Cirrus was not on a first solo flight. The solo flight applied to the Cessna 172 who reported the chute deployment of the Cirrus.
EXDAC
The SR22 has fixed landing gear. They appear to be missing in both the video of the descent, and post-touchdown still pictures.
So yes and no - definitely damaged, but the gear seem to have absorbed the worst of the impact for the Cirrus.
A last-second pull-up is possible, but so is just being lucky in one's position ± a foot or a fraction of a meter.
This accident shares characteristics with other collisions involving flight paths converging at a shallow angle - from PSA 727-Cessna at KSAN (1978) to the helo-Piper collision over the Hudson (2009).
I'm sure the NTSB will get full use out of their nifty-difty re-creation/simulation tools for examining what obstructions to vision each aircraft was experiencing in the last seconds.
The SR22 has fixed landing gear. They appear to be missing in both the video of the descent, and post-touchdown still pictures.
So yes and no - definitely damaged, but the gear seem to have absorbed the worst of the impact for the Cirrus.
A last-second pull-up is possible, but so is just being lucky in one's position ± a foot or a fraction of a meter.
This accident shares characteristics with other collisions involving flight paths converging at a shallow angle - from PSA 727-Cessna at KSAN (1978) to the helo-Piper collision over the Hudson (2009).
I'm sure the NTSB will get full use out of their nifty-difty re-creation/simulation tools for examining what obstructions to vision each aircraft was experiencing in the last seconds.
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Maybe he misinterpreted the aircraft he had identified or he did not expect 2 aircraft on the final.
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As a note, during a parachute descent, the Cirrus relies on the gear collapse to dissipate energy on impact with the ground. So their arrival may have been a bit more firm than Cirrus intended.
Last edited by slacktide; 13th May 2021 at 17:08.
pattern_is_full
As a Licensed Engineer/Mechanic, any thoughts on what Type-Approval I would need to remove Cirrus Landing Gear from a Metroliner?
As a Licensed Engineer/Mechanic, any thoughts on what Type-Approval I would need to remove Cirrus Landing Gear from a Metroliner?
roundsounds
You have more faith in human visual processing and cognitive capacity than I do. You can scan until your head falls off but if you can't spot it, you can't avoid it. You may believe your 'SA' to be 100% but you don't know what you don't know...
You have more faith in human visual processing and cognitive capacity than I do. You can scan until your head falls off but if you can't spot it, you can't avoid it. You may believe your 'SA' to be 100% but you don't know what you don't know...
I fly a Cirrus SR22T and would concur that it is not a simple aircraft. However it is marketed to people who may not have a lot of background in aviation. Cirrus compensate for this by having very comprehensive training and an amazing autopilot/flight management system. The aircraft was making the turn to final at what appears to be high speed. It will be interesting to see whether the pilot was hand flying. One possible scenario is that the pilot was concentrating on the preceding traffic possibly with the autopilot flying and seems to have left a high power setting which contributed to them overshooting the turn. The left wing in a right turn to final may have blocked view of the metroliner and the smaller aircraft rather unusually appears to catch and cross the larger aircraft. The parachute worked as advertised while the cargo pilot proceeded to land while displaying amazing cool, truly the 'right stuff'.
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From the NTSB:
NTSB News Release
National Transportation Safety Board Office of Safety Recommendations and CommunicationsInvestigative Update: Wednesday's Mid-Air Collision Near Denver
5/13/2021 WASHINGTON (May 13, 2021) — National Transportation Safety Board investigators continue Thursday to gather information about Wednesday’s mid-air collision involving a Cirrus SR-22 airplane and a Swearingen Metroliner airplane near Centennial Airport, Denver.
No one was injured when the Swearingen Metroliner, operated by Key Lime Air, and a Cirrus SR-22 rented, from Independence Aviation, collided as the planes were landing at Centennial Airport.
The NTSB Investigator-in-Charge for this accident has interviewed both pilots, and an NTSB air traffic control specialist has listened to recordings from air traffic control. Interviews of the controllers working with the Cirrus and Metroliner pilots are planned.
An NTSB investigator examined the wrecked Cirrus Wednesday and will examine the Metroliner Thursday. The insurer of the Cirrus arranged for removal and transport of the plane to Centennial Airport and the Metroliner is at a Key Lime Air facility at Centennial Airport.
Both aircraft were operating under Part 91 general aviation rules. The Cirrus was on a local flight from Centennial and the Metroliner was repositioning from Salida, Colorado.
The NTSB’s investigation of the mid-air collision will, in general terms, look at the people involved in the accident, the airplanes involved in the accident and the environment in which the accident happened. There are currently four NTSB investigators working on this accident investigation.
“We are working to understand how and why these planes collided,” said John Brannen, a Senior Air Safety Investigator from the NTSB’s Central Region office and the Investigator-in-Charge for the accident investigation. “It is so fortunate that no one was injured in this collision.”
A preliminary report will publish in the next 14 days and the investigation is expected to take between 12 and 18 months to complete.
National Transportation Safety Board Office of Safety Recommendations and CommunicationsInvestigative Update: Wednesday's Mid-Air Collision Near Denver
5/13/2021 WASHINGTON (May 13, 2021) — National Transportation Safety Board investigators continue Thursday to gather information about Wednesday’s mid-air collision involving a Cirrus SR-22 airplane and a Swearingen Metroliner airplane near Centennial Airport, Denver.
No one was injured when the Swearingen Metroliner, operated by Key Lime Air, and a Cirrus SR-22 rented, from Independence Aviation, collided as the planes were landing at Centennial Airport.
The NTSB Investigator-in-Charge for this accident has interviewed both pilots, and an NTSB air traffic control specialist has listened to recordings from air traffic control. Interviews of the controllers working with the Cirrus and Metroliner pilots are planned.
An NTSB investigator examined the wrecked Cirrus Wednesday and will examine the Metroliner Thursday. The insurer of the Cirrus arranged for removal and transport of the plane to Centennial Airport and the Metroliner is at a Key Lime Air facility at Centennial Airport.
Both aircraft were operating under Part 91 general aviation rules. The Cirrus was on a local flight from Centennial and the Metroliner was repositioning from Salida, Colorado.
The NTSB’s investigation of the mid-air collision will, in general terms, look at the people involved in the accident, the airplanes involved in the accident and the environment in which the accident happened. There are currently four NTSB investigators working on this accident investigation.
“We are working to understand how and why these planes collided,” said John Brannen, a Senior Air Safety Investigator from the NTSB’s Central Region office and the Investigator-in-Charge for the accident investigation. “It is so fortunate that no one was injured in this collision.”
A preliminary report will publish in the next 14 days and the investigation is expected to take between 12 and 18 months to complete.