737-500 missing in Indonesia
So it lost 7875 feet in 11 seconds-jeez.
Has to be vertical, and surely largely intact to achieve that ROD.
Has to be vertical, and surely largely intact to achieve that ROD.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Madrid
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot suicide? If the pilot put it into a dive, we'd see a big increase in speed as the altitude decreased.
Stall? Spin? If that were the case, we'd see the speed getting dangerously low before the altitude drop and even then, it should be recoverable from that altitude. That drop in altitude would give more than enough speed to recover from a stall.
Instead the altitude and speed both suddenly dropped at the same time, which seems to indicate a sudden structural failure of the aircraft.
Stall? Spin? If that were the case, we'd see the speed getting dangerously low before the altitude drop and even then, it should be recoverable from that altitude. That drop in altitude would give more than enough speed to recover from a stall.
Instead the altitude and speed both suddenly dropped at the same time, which seems to indicate a sudden structural failure of the aircraft.
56 pax and 6 crew = 62 souls.
The airline's website is very basic and still fails to mention the accident or any support for families and friends of the pax and crew.
Peter, fair points. Stall can be achieved irrelevant of airspeed though. All down to AOA. Stall a 737 at 250kts no doubt. But yeah evidence is pointing toward something giving way and the aircraft nose diving into the sea below.
The airline's website is very basic and still fails to mention the accident or any support for families and friends of the pax and crew.
Peter, fair points. Stall can be achieved irrelevant of airspeed though. All down to AOA. Stall a 737 at 250kts no doubt. But yeah evidence is pointing toward something giving way and the aircraft nose diving into the sea below.
In late September (2019), quality, safety and security director Toto Soebandoro, in a leaked internal letter, recommended that Sriwijaya stop its operations until it can improve its safety standards. This was similar to what the Transportation Ministry would later decide based on factors such as a lack of engineers as well as tools, equipment and spare parts for proper maintenance of its fleet and an absence of maintenance by any MRO provider.
Last week, the aviation authority gave the airline five days to sort out its safety and security issues and threatened to totally halt its operation on Wednesday if the problem is not solved.
Last week, the aviation authority gave the airline five days to sort out its safety and security issues and threatened to totally halt its operation on Wednesday if the problem is not solved.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Groundspeed
No, again: FR24 shows "groundspeed", not IAS. When the aircraft points downwards, groundspeed automatically drops. A 90° vertical dive downwards means "groundspeed 0kts". Nothing indicates a midflight break-up. In contrary: it kept sending ADS-B data including GPS position.
Boeing 737-300 Silkair MI185 had a similar descent profile when it went in in 1997. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: checked
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PK-CLC flight profile
FR24 ADS-B data
Timestamp Alt GS HDG
07:39:56Z 10800;287;42
07:40:02Z 10900;287;30
07:40:05Z 10900;287;23
07:40:08Z 10725;287;6
07:40:14Z 8950;224;339
07:40:16Z 8125;192;338
07:40:20Z 5400;115;11
07:40:27Z 250;358;93
Timestamp Alt GS HDG
07:39:56Z 10800;287;42
07:40:02Z 10900;287;30
07:40:05Z 10900;287;23
07:40:08Z 10725;287;6
07:40:14Z 8950;224;339
07:40:16Z 8125;192;338
07:40:20Z 5400;115;11
07:40:27Z 250;358;93
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's obviously a false data point, maybe caused by an incomplete/corrupted ADS-B transmission.
Maybe.
Though the final few points are also consistent with a spiral during the last seconds of the trajectory - provided one resists the temptation to use straight lines to join the dots and infer instantaneous 90° turns ...
Though the final few points are also consistent with a spiral during the last seconds of the trajectory - provided one resists the temptation to use straight lines to join the dots and infer instantaneous 90° turns ...
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could you please refrain from continuing mentioning pilot suicide in here. you absolutely zero evidence for that so out of respect for the families of the victims and the pilots , turn it off. We have seen how repeating a falsehood long enough on internet can turn mobs into believing it.
Nobody has any, zero evidence to what happened a few hours ago.
Nobody has any, zero evidence to what happened a few hours ago.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are not that many options IMO:
- suicide
- Somatogravic Illusion / disorientation (but the would have seen the ground, the weather doesn't seem that bad, does it?)
- some kind of H stab failure/jam
- some kind of trimming issue, misconfigured AP or siilar?
In any case, it's getting strange how Boeings are nosediving from the sky:
- Fly dubai
- Atlas
- and now this
Has there been something similar with fatal consequences involving an Airbus? Apart from Germanwings, which was (supposedly) suicide, but even that one didn't really nosedive.
- suicide
- Somatogravic Illusion / disorientation (but the would have seen the ground, the weather doesn't seem that bad, does it?)
- some kind of H stab failure/jam
- some kind of trimming issue, misconfigured AP or siilar?
In any case, it's getting strange how Boeings are nosediving from the sky:
- Fly dubai
Has there been something similar with fatal consequences involving an Airbus? Apart from Germanwings, which was (supposedly) suicide, but even that one didn't really nosedive.
not appropriate in a proffesionals forum
andrasz, #33
You perpetuate the mistake which the FAA made in concluding that whilst a 3 person crew identified a fault, then a 2 person crew in similar circumstances would act and be capable of achieving a safe outcome.
Your views on this accident re maintenance, CB, LOC, IMC are ill founded - no evidence or reasoned argument in comparison with others experiences.
Bias, inappropriate cause and effect; not appropriate in a professional forum
You perpetuate the mistake which the FAA made in concluding that whilst a 3 person crew identified a fault, then a 2 person crew in similar circumstances would act and be capable of achieving a safe outcome.
Your views on this accident re maintenance, CB, LOC, IMC are ill founded - no evidence or reasoned argument in comparison with others experiences.
Bias, inappropriate cause and effect; not appropriate in a professional forum
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gulf Air 072: A disorientated pilot dived into the sea with forward pressure on the side stick.
Air France 447: A disorientated pilot maintained back pressure on the stick until a stalled aircraft crashed into the sea.
In both these incidents having the two sticks physically connected together could have prevented both of these.
F-MANU
If this data is correct, then according to the ground speed this aircraft went from a cruise-climb at 287 kts to a descent (less horizontal speed, altitude reducing), and then finally to a ground speed of 358 kts, i.e. it had resumed horizontal travel.
An emergency descent, for whatever reason, maybe got too fast in the descent and/or then pulled out too late, almost made it, but hit the sea?
The left turn seen in the HDG data; possibly yaw caused by a No 1 engine failure?
If this data is correct, then according to the ground speed this aircraft went from a cruise-climb at 287 kts to a descent (less horizontal speed, altitude reducing), and then finally to a ground speed of 358 kts, i.e. it had resumed horizontal travel.
An emergency descent, for whatever reason, maybe got too fast in the descent and/or then pulled out too late, almost made it, but hit the sea?
The left turn seen in the HDG data; possibly yaw caused by a No 1 engine failure?