Brexit and the Aviation industry

[ndue345]

The conversion from a third country is more than a skill test and ATPL theory

-EASA class 1
-ELP (fcl 055)
-ATPL Theory (14 exams)
-skill test on your type if you are ATPL or training + CPL skill test for CPL holders
-UPRT as it will be your 1st CS25 on EASA licence.

all the NAA’s fees

[HEMS chap]

Cheers for comments very interesting and massively frustrating for people in our world who have through blood sweat and pots of cash to get qualified to do the career of their choice. Hopefully someone in EASA and CAA or UK department of transport will put their grown up head on and level the playing field for those having to struggle through this debacle. Would not hold my breath on that though so feel the anguish for the pilots I work with who are either on a year and a half time bomb now, or the others who are facing unemployment due to not having the time/resources to go through all those hoops. Loved the bit about having to carry out a skills test on your type...... do they know how much a S92 or AW 139 etc or EC 135 costs per hour to rent!!!

[ndue345]

For the acceptance of the TR, you need to have:
-your type valid on your licence.
-500hrs for plane or 350hrs for helicopters
-current practice

so if you are new on the type or/and COVID or unemployed, you won’t be able to get the type on your licence. Even though you can financially support this mess.

[Denti]

HEMS chap

A normal simulator LPC is enough. No clue how common those are for helicopters, but I've seen a EC135/145 level D sim in Frankfurt.

[HEMS chap]

rogue leader

You put it far more factual than myself so thanks for that. I am staggered and slightly embarrassed that I had no real knowledge of what all the implementations meant. Being a UK based pilot never really looked into it. Anyone affected you have my sympathies... bless those people in previous and current UK parliament and EU land, you have really done all the aviation industry from the EU or UK proud haven't you. Hope that reads as sarcastically as is was meant to.

[HEMS chap]

Be fun to ask a UK MP or European MP to re sit their qualifications so they can carry on doing the job they have been doing for years ( plus fund it it personally whilst running a household etc ) I am willing to wager they could not pass the entrance exam.... I certainly couldn't after 30 years flying I think I can only think of the odd question that actually had reference to what we do daily, apart from show learning.

[rogue leader]

Denti, thank you for that - not a replacement for an EASA licence but a glimmer of hope for someone who needs to work in EASA land.

[HEMS chap]

gipsymagpie

Yep UK licence holders def thrown under the bus... as the youth say.

[Alex Whittingham]

Following up on earlier posts I asked Austro Control the following:

I have a policy question for you, if you have time, please. We are used to the idea that ATPL TK exams have a 36 month validity for CPL licence issue under FCL.025 (c)(1) and the implications of FCL.025 (c)(2) only normally affect people who have been off flying for a long time. However when you read that para it clearly says that ATPL TK exams are valid for issue of an ATPL for 7 years since the last IR expired.On that basis, pilots who had previously passed EASA ATPL TK exams, under the UK normally but also possibly under the authority of another Member State, and who failed to transfer SOLI out of the UK before exit day and therefore currently hold a UK ATPL or a UK CPL IR are asking whether their historic ATPL TK exam passes are valid on this basis to gain an EASA ATPL with a state such as Austro, ie exams credited, only Class 1 and flight tests required.

I have to say I can’t see why not. What is the official Austro view, please?

I asked them to put it to their policy unit and give a yes/no answer. They reply:

We ... cannot avoid confirming definitively and in purely legal terms that is possible for the candidates to apply with the existing certificate from our point of view. Nevertheless, if the candidates decide to issue the license with us, we would inform EASA accordingly about the recognition of the certificates by us. Should political objections then arise, we would at least know this in advance and would not have to burden candidates with contingencies afterwards.

[Booglebox]

Interesting. Someone should try it.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I guess everyone's situation is different but here's mine. UK citizen, resident in Asia, made redundant from my flying job in September 2020. I have an Irish EASA ATPL with B777 type rating which I converted from my UK EASA ATPL in around 2014.

Can I apply for a job in UK or Europe with this licence and, in the case of UK, would I have to transfer it at some stage back to a UK licence and, if so, would any exams be involved?

Caveat all the above by saying I am 59 years old and it may all just fall in the 'too difficult' category.

Bit of a mess isn't it!

[deltahotel]

Bananas. Wherever you apply you will need the right to live and work - can’t tell from your post how that fits but guessing U.K. Under the current validation process you can work for a U.K. airline with your EASA licence. You can apply for a U.K. national licence and medical certificate from the CAA. The age thing is your problem!

rgds

[Denti]

Well, right to live and work should apply both to Ireland and UK, shouldn't it?

[Banana Joe]

Depending on the airline, that is not unrestricted right to live and work in the EU. His options can be limited.

[Denti]

Indeed, as a UK citizen (without any EU citizenship) he would be limited to the right to live and work in the UK and Ireland, the rest of the EU/EEA would not be possible. There is always a possibility to get an EU blue card, but that requires a university degree and a binding job offer, depending on country the employer would have to prove first that he cannot find another suitably qualified EU local or EU citizen for the job, which is currently and for the next few years impossible for pilots.

The right to live and work is quite independent from the license anyway. One needs to have both.

[BTAP]

Just about to reapply for the UK licence after moving it to Ireland last year. Regarding the chances of getting a visa as a foreign pilot - I guess time will tell. Not ideal!

[Blake Seven]

So if I’ve got this right, the UK CAA have now made it a straightforward application process for non-UK EASA licence holders to obtain a U.K. licence and fly U.K. registered aircraft.
Even those that have NOT previously held a U.K. licence. Fill out a form, cough up the fee and you’re good to go.

No reciprocal agreement. If a U.K. pilot should wish to have an EASA licence, its the full process to be completed. Exams, flight tests, medical.....
So at a time we’re there are thousands of U.K. pilots being placed on furlough, part time contracts and/ or made redundant, why has the CAA decided to let European pilots apply for whatever jobs may be available on U.K. registered aircraft?
Furthermore, jobless pilots from Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe are now having to compete with EU pilots in an already constricted marketplace.
Seems that Aviation, along with Fishing and Farming has been sold a pup and lied to about the benefits of Brexit.
Well played CAA, well played indeed.

[TURIN]

Don't blame the CAA. They didn't sign off on this deal. The UK government did. "An oven ready deal". 🙄

[Alex Whittingham]

While they are not exclusively to blame, yes, let's blame the CAA. The more I dig into this the greater my conviction that the CAA never really chose to believe that we would leave EASA and never made any real effort to prepare for it. In my area of interest, for instance, I spent 3 years telling them that they needed to set up question banks for post-EASA professional exams and was met with what can only be described as over-confident lies such as "the caa has the capability to create its own question banks". What was done? Nothing. And so when exit day came they appropriated the EASA question banks with a very dodgy attempt to claim that they owned them, really, not EASA. What on earth will happen if EASA successfully apply for an injunction to stop them using them? The answer is no professional pilot exams for the forseeable future. The CAA won't put a Plan B in place because that means admitting that Plan A is dodgy. Let's also look at their legal obligations. They were required to publish a rulemaking process, carefully specified in Article 115 of UK (EU) Reg No 2018/1139 which has requirements for prior consultation when AMCs and Certification Standards are being considered for adoption and an NPA process before adoption. Not done, despite literally years of advance notice and still not done today so all their attempts to adopt EASA AMCs and issue certification standards are not compliant with UK law and in effect ineffective. I complain. The CAA say they won't consider the complaint. Loss of LPV approaches; I told a director of the CAA (a pilot) in late summer last year this was going to happen, he had no idea how EGNOS integrity control worked, said it had not been mentioned to him in briefings. Surprise! Anyone who has close contact with the CAA will be, like me, forming the opinion that they are very close to imploding in a miasma of incompetence and denial.

[Blake Seven]

Originally Posted by TURIN

Don't blame the CAA. They didn't sign off on this deal. The UK government did. "An oven ready deal". 🙄

In case you’ve forgotten, the CAA is a branch of the Department of Transport. Amongst its other area of responsibilities, FCL falls well and truly within its remit.
Do you think Shapps and his chinless wonder chums understand for one second, the nuances of licence issue and privileges. Not a chance. That’s what the CAA should have been advising the DofT about, in order that a considered approach could have been made.
Their failure to do so, will impact on UK aviation do quite some time.