Brexit and the Aviation industry
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It is new, but never mind, we are where we are with Brexiteers putting their own spin on things.
UK airlines are in a far worse position than they were under the open skies agreement.
It is to be hoped that EU261/2004 on passenger rights is not changed by the government. At present it has been incorporated into UK law and let us hope it stays that way.
UK airlines are in a far worse position than they were under the open skies agreement.
It is to be hoped that EU261/2004 on passenger rights is not changed by the government. At present it has been incorporated into UK law and let us hope it stays that way.
Climb150
The flying public will soon notice when there's an AOG down route with no UK CAA licensed engineer to certify the repair !
Of course, they will be the first to complain !
The flying public will soon notice when there's an AOG down route with no UK CAA licensed engineer to certify the repair !
Of course, they will be the first to complain !
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I understand that Heathrow Airport has issued a Directors Notice on behalf of HM immigration that states that Engineers and Loadmasters are not considered part of the aircraft crew under the Air Navigation Order. As a result of this any Engineer or Load Master must either be a UK citizen or be have the appropriate work visa before they start to work in the UK. The DN states that the airside area is part of the UK and thus a flying spanner or Loadmaster cannot arrive and depart on the same aircraft to handle the turnaround. .
Sounds like more madness !
The UK really are trying to make their lives more difficult.
Surely, if an individual is listed on the GENDEC as would be the case for a Flying Spanner or Loadmaster they should be considered to be part of the crew.
The UK really are trying to make their lives more difficult.
Surely, if an individual is listed on the GENDEC as would be the case for a Flying Spanner or Loadmaster they should be considered to be part of the crew.
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Nope. As of Monday engineers have to comply with entry requirements as per the travelling public. Which includes getting a negative pcr or lamp test before arrival. Even though they are on the gendec and have been with the rest of the crew the whole trip. They are not considered to be 'crew'.
Bonkers.
But then this is nothing particularly new. Flying spanners haven't been considered crew for a while. On return to the UK they aren't allowed to exit with the crew, instead having to take the same immigration channels as the passengers.
Bonkers.
But then this is nothing particularly new. Flying spanners haven't been considered crew for a while. On return to the UK they aren't allowed to exit with the crew, instead having to take the same immigration channels as the passengers.
Last edited by Yeehaw22; 21st Jan 2021 at 10:23.
Absolute Madness !
So any operators flying into the UK will have no choice but to sub contact their line maintenance / turnarounds to a UK based company.
More expenses at a time when the industry is already on its knees !
So any operators flying into the UK will have no choice but to sub contact their line maintenance / turnarounds to a UK based company.
More expenses at a time when the industry is already on its knees !
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In more normal times the flying spanner is a bit of a rarity anyway so doesn't generally cause an issue. But at a time when everyone is trying to pick up any work they can with freight etc to destinations they wouldn't normally serve then yes its now causing a problem.
Not overseas mind you. Just on return to the UK.
Not overseas mind you. Just on return to the UK.
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101917
In fact that may not be correct, the legislation covers all flights to Europe and the UK exiting Europe will not change anything as it will still cover flights to Europe, so payments are still required. The UK could, if it chooses, change the law to remove payment for flights to non-EU destinations but it can't prevent payments for flights to European destinations.
In fact that may not be correct, the legislation covers all flights to Europe and the UK exiting Europe will not change anything as it will still cover flights to Europe, so payments are still required. The UK could, if it chooses, change the law to remove payment for flights to non-EU destinations but it can't prevent payments for flights to European destinations.
Webby737
It's worse
As I understand what's been written above, the personnel to whom the maintenance is subcontracted would have to hold EASA licenses in addition to the UK CAA licenses they will need to work on G-reg aircraft
It's worse
As I understand what's been written above, the personnel to whom the maintenance is subcontracted would have to hold EASA licenses in addition to the UK CAA licenses they will need to work on G-reg aircraft
That's correct.
As of the 01 Jan this year EASA Licensed Engineers can no longer certify work on UK (G) registered aircraft and UK CAA Licensed Engineers can no longer certify work on EASA registered aircraft.
This becomes a bit problematic if you've got a small line station with only one or two engineers.
There's still more fun to come in the future, you can still fit parts certified with an EASA Form 1 till the end of 2023, after that you will require a UK CAA Form 1. I can see component manufacturer / overhaul companies having to issue triplicate releases in the future (EASA / FAA / UK CAA).
So in brief, more exams, more paperwork and more expenses !
As of the 01 Jan this year EASA Licensed Engineers can no longer certify work on UK (G) registered aircraft and UK CAA Licensed Engineers can no longer certify work on EASA registered aircraft.
This becomes a bit problematic if you've got a small line station with only one or two engineers.
There's still more fun to come in the future, you can still fit parts certified with an EASA Form 1 till the end of 2023, after that you will require a UK CAA Form 1. I can see component manufacturer / overhaul companies having to issue triplicate releases in the future (EASA / FAA / UK CAA).
So in brief, more exams, more paperwork and more expenses !
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And yet the UK have allowed a 2 year grace period for any easa license holders to continue to work in the UK certifying UK aircraft. Have UK license holders been granted the same privilege in Europe?
No we haven't. Top work Boris.
No we haven't. Top work Boris.
How may times must it be explained that the EU is a group of countries that must all agree on any changes to EASA rules. Same as Brexit, all EU countries must sign off off on it.
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The reason why there is no 2 year reciprocal recognition of UK LAME Licences by EASA is that the licence didn't simply exist at that point in time. EASA were hardly going to sign up to recognising a licence when nobody knew the format, details and requirements to hold a licence (even though most of us suspected it was going to be a cut and paste from EASA Pt66). The question is, what are the Government going to do about it once the first UK Pt66 Licences are issued instead of just crossing out EASA. on our current Licence?
I transferred to Ireland to maintain EASA and am just waiting for the UK CAA to come up with the process to reactivate my UK rights/Licence.
I transferred to Ireland to maintain EASA and am just waiting for the UK CAA to come up with the process to reactivate my UK rights/Licence.
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Climb150
I fully understand the foibles and how it works. Doesn't make it fair or right. At a time where jobs are going to be at a premium post covid, UK license holders are not only going to be restricted to UK positions only but also have any easa license holder competing for employment in the UK.
I fully understand the foibles and how it works. Doesn't make it fair or right. At a time where jobs are going to be at a premium post covid, UK license holders are not only going to be restricted to UK positions only but also have any easa license holder competing for employment in the UK.
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Tom Sawyer
This is where I feel most aggrieved. I didn't convert as it was only an indication at the time that the UK would issue a comparable UK Caa license. Nothing concrete, nothing in writing. I guess down to the fact the 'deal' was all so last minute.
But now it's too late. The UK issued easa licence holder is well and truly disadvantaged. I just hope once the dust settles that we end up with bilateral agreements down the line. But am not holding my breath as it seems we've burnt the bridges and there's no real incentive for easa to play ball.
This is where I feel most aggrieved. I didn't convert as it was only an indication at the time that the UK would issue a comparable UK Caa license. Nothing concrete, nothing in writing. I guess down to the fact the 'deal' was all so last minute.
But now it's too late. The UK issued easa licence holder is well and truly disadvantaged. I just hope once the dust settles that we end up with bilateral agreements down the line. But am not holding my breath as it seems we've burnt the bridges and there's no real incentive for easa to play ball.
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Sorry Yeehaw, it was in writing. The CAA Brexit Microsite Engineers section was updated with the details in late 2018 which is why I transferred mine to Ireland in early 2019 once I was aware I could get a UK licence and rights back post Brexit. If you are missing out on info/updates from UK CAA subscribe to their Skywise service (Home - SkyWise) for relevant updates.
For any other LAMEs info, there is a form SRG1014RET on the CAA publications site to reactivate your UK Licence if have transferred to another EASA state prior to Brexit, however there is no published process, requirements or costs that I can find to go with it.
For any other LAMEs info, there is a form SRG1014RET on the CAA publications site to reactivate your UK Licence if have transferred to another EASA state prior to Brexit, however there is no published process, requirements or costs that I can find to go with it.
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Tom Sawyer
No it wasn't. They implied it would happen, they said it should happen but never 100% committed to it. I checked the site on numerous occasions waiting for it to be updated before October. I had several telephone and emails with the CAA again all non committal and also the company I worked for could not get a solid answer.
No it wasn't. They implied it would happen, they said it should happen but never 100% committed to it. I checked the site on numerous occasions waiting for it to be updated before October. I had several telephone and emails with the CAA again all non committal and also the company I worked for could not get a solid answer.
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CW247
It's pretty straightforward. Any easa license holder can currently work in the UK certifying G reg aircraft for the next 2 years (at least). The UK issued license holder does not have the same reciprocal opportunities in Europe.
I fully understand the intricacies of it all but its not a level playing field. If we aren't getting a grace period in the EU then we shouldnt be granting one to EASA issued licenses. Petty? Absolutely, but I don't see any other way for it to be fair.
It's pretty straightforward. Any easa license holder can currently work in the UK certifying G reg aircraft for the next 2 years (at least). The UK issued license holder does not have the same reciprocal opportunities in Europe.
I fully understand the intricacies of it all but its not a level playing field. If we aren't getting a grace period in the EU then we shouldnt be granting one to EASA issued licenses. Petty? Absolutely, but I don't see any other way for it to be fair.