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Brexit and the Aviation industry

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Brexit and the Aviation industry

Old 28th Dec 2020, 00:07
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I read what the general validation (CAP2017) actually says..

The general validation for EASA pilots only mentions outside U.K. airspace, but the swiss pilots validation (CAP2018) mentions inside and outside...

what is the mechanism that actually allows EASA licence holders to fly G-Reg aircraft inside U.K. airspace for 2 years?


Last edited by SFIM; 28th Dec 2020 at 00:33.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 07:24
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not sure what the mechanism is but if you listen to the recent CAA podcasts (particularly the one for AOC holders) they say that it will be OK with the CAA and all an EASA licence holder will need to do is download a covering letter from the CAA website to put in their lincence. This letter is only needed in case of a diversion and even then, only belt and braces against an over efficient inspector.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 08:44
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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From Jan 1st , the U.K. is a third country and it won’t be possible to then do a SOLI transfer. The Individual will be stuck with a U.K. license
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 09:04
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Now they have time until 31st March.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 09:50
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Could you please provide a reference for your statement? Because as correctly stated by turbine100, on 1st January the UK would have left EASA. With no other bilateral agreement in place yet, licence transfers would not be possible.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agenc...and-licensing-

The only reference I find about 31st March is in ORS4 no. 1453 which is unilateral and applies only to those who SOLI’ed out from UK to another EASA member state but awaiting licence issue between 1st January and 31st March.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap...etail&id=10016
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 09:50
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Iím puzzled as to how Aer Lingus can now fly MAN to the USA from 2021 as just announced. Why would the UK allow it?
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 09:58
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Aer Lingus are setting up a UK registered airline to operate out of MAN. If they can meet UK and US regualtory requirements they'll be allowed to operate.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 10:17
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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SFIM, by my reading the original Statutory Instrument says that EASA licences current and valid on exit day are to be treated as if they were issued by the UK CAA, and hence valid for G reg.

SI 219 No 645 Sch 3 para 2

Approvals, licences and certificates

2.—(1) Subject to paragraph 3, any other licence, certificate or approval issued by the European Aviation Safety Agency or by the national competent authority of an EEA state which continues to be in force or effective on or after exit day by virtue of Part 3 of Schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, is—

(a) to continue to be in force or effective on and after exit day for the remainder of its validity period up to a maximum of 2 years (subject to any earlier suspension or cancellation by the CAA); and
(b) to be treated as if it were issued by the CAA.

(2) This paragraph applies only to documents issued under Regulation (EU) No 2018/1139 and EU implementing Regulations made under it.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 11:11
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Alex, for the clarification.

what I also understood from watching the CAA webinar for AOC holders was that while type ratings (which fall under “licences”) would be covered by the general validation for 2 years even if they were revalidated (presumably by a EASA FE TRE only as things stand) that FI or FE authorisations (which fall under “certificates”) would only be recognised until the current expiry or 31-12-21, whichever comes first, but not after current expiry (if earlier) even if revalidated by an EASA examiner, which could be inconvenient for people if they expire early in 2021, the devil is in the detail....

Last edited by SFIM; 28th Dec 2020 at 22:23.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 12:25
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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This gets interesting . Reading this the CAA has not said 2 years for EASA license holders to be treated as UK license holders . They have said UP to 2 years and they can cancel this anytime within this period . That means anyone who has swooped there UK licence for an EASA one in anticipation of getting 2 years may well not be able to fly G reg aircraft at the drop of a hat . From 1 jan the French are saying a UK ATPL is not recognised in France , Not even as a PPL . You have to sit various exams , have another medical , flight tests etc to fly a 2 seater . The fact you have a UK ATPL with current SEP IR , FI it’s a big non , desolee .
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 13:14
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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My understanding is that the SI only covers licences, certificates and approvals valid at exit day until their expiry date, this is what "up to a maximum of 2 years" means. Also the UK CAA do not intend to maliciously suspend or cancel, this clause would only be used if a UK licence would otherwise be suspended etc. They are applying the SI quite strictly though, when it suits them, so that 'licences', which have no expiry dates will be recognised for the full two years whereas ATPL theory passes from, say, Austro Control, will not be recognised beyond exit day because the Austro authority to examine which rests on their designation as 'competent authority' for a Member State is not a 'licence, certificate or approval'. Thus candidates going for a UK licence who have so far completed their exams with Austro must switch over to the UK CAA to complete their exam series.Revenue switches back to the UK CAA.

The question of the Frenc DGAC not recognising UK issued licenses to fly French registered aircraft is separate, I think.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 13:19
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham View Post
The question of the Frenc DGAC not recognising UK issued licenses to fly French registered aircraft is separate, I think.
Just european law. Certificates and licenses are generally not recognized if issued by the UK. Some limited airworthiness certificates will be recognized, licenses not at all.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 13:47
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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What the CAA will do and what people speculate that they will do is just that . A UK EASA Licence that next week is not recognised in The EU / DGAG but their EASA licence is recognised by the CAA is an imbalance and the CAA have the authority to make them the same unless I have mis read the section . I expect unless the DGAC / EASA concedes then all EASA licenses flying G reg will have to re apply for a CAA license and swop back . Just speculation like many other posters .
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 14:16
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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SFIM

The ANO allows EASA Licence holders to continue to fly G-reg within U.K. airspace, although you are still supposed have a copy of the validation with you and your EASA licence.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 17:58
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Iím not sure how good of a reference the UK ANO is, considering last revision was 2016!

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Old 29th Dec 2020, 13:59
  #116 (permalink)  
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Latest transition updates from the CAA

https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transit...eid=507d9f87ed
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 16:23
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Too late to do anything. Others whom voted for this mess I know transfered their licences to Irish and Dutch ones and thought we were mad not to do the same. Shapps and his crowd have stuffed their own.
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 16:48
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Welp, looks like I may be about to lose my job due to this stuff. I was lucky enough to be offered a cargo job in Europe in mid October, after the submission deadline for licence transfer. I applied for licence transfer straight away anyway (to IAA) but it has not come through and it will be a miracle if it does in the coming days. Im not even through line training for my new airline. Any advice on getting a third country validation or similar so I can continue to operate?
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 19:26
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Can someone remind me of the benefits of this again?

I assume any G-Reg bizjet charter aircraft now can't charge revenue for flights EU-EU (for example, EGLF - LFPB is chargeable, LFPB - EBBR could not be chargeable, EBBR - EGLF could?)
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 20:59
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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If you work for a UK major , then most folks there donít give a stuff about EASA. Its those who generally have plied their trade overseas, wether in Europe or further afield, that have the most to loose.

I know from personal experience, that keeping an IAA licence current while working Outside of Europe, was a simple email with a latest LPC report, sent to the IAA lic dept.

Not so with the CAA licence. Thats why I changed, and will never return.

The CAA is jobs for the old school tie and squadron boys. Old school & irrelevant.
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