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Brexit and the Aviation industry

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Brexit and the Aviation industry

Old 26th Dec 2020, 15:28
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
It depends what you mean by a "large number". I suspect that not all of the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit were pilots.
a large number of pilots are not necessarily a large number of the electorate
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 15:33
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Err ..sorry to burst your bubble...they are only effective if they are policed...they are not. That's why the CAA has never prosecuted a single airline for breaching them.
What they do when presented with evidence of blatant abuse is send internal emails stating 'get over it'. The union...really?,,' Blue pill or red pill' it's your choice.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 15:51
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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It is a matter of time before ME3 airlines will heavily invest in UK airlines. Short term outlook, the UK will feel some pain but long term, the UK aviation industry will become stronger.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 16:25
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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As someone who has suffered through an airline heavily invested into (in total around 3 billion € direct operational investment) by an ME3 airline: that might not be entirely good for both employees and customers.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 16:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Aaah but Brits do more licky licky bum bum with the Arabs you see (and always have done) whereas Germans were pretty new to the experience.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 17:34
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Denti View Post
EASA FTL are a minimum measure, but they are also binding and enforceable EU regulation, therefore it is legally not possible for member states to require higher limits via their authorities. Companies of course use planning limits that are to a higher safety level. That said, EASA FTL was actually a marked improvement compared to JAR FTL.

Sorry for being completely off topic here.
I hope the UK CAA don't bring back CAP371 is all I can say. EASA FTL bought a level playing field and with even fewer UK AOC's left it wouldn't be great to put them at a commercial disadvantage now. Those UK AOC's left also have the UK WTD and or Union agreements to manage the difficult parts of EASA FTL.
And Denti that's an interesting remark about JAR FTL strange that all the EU Airlines managed with it before the 'unsafe' EASA FTL came along.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 18:04
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that aircraft on the OE-reg have more flexible rules (for airlines that is) than other member states? With this a reason why some owners and operators are using this registration as a quasi flag of convenience.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 18:22
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Any one any information regarding the following?

Will it be possible to transfer a UK CAA license to an EASA License later down the road? Or does this mean all the EASA atpl exams have to be retaken?

Is it possible to have a UK CAA license and an EASA license valid at the same time? (As EASA will see the UK license as a 3rd country license?
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 18:29
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Dannyboy39

Very efficient CAA.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 18:30
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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FlyingFrl

My understanding is that after 31st March 2021 ATPL exams have to be retaken, and it will be possible to hold both UK and EASA licences. But that sounds like double the bureaucracy, double the recurrent training, double the fees.

I stand to be corrected.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 19:21
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CW247 View Post
I ask again. With Eastern European ACMIs still allowed to provide ultra cheap services to UK airlines using their own European equipment and staff, are British employees at an even greater risk of never finding employment again? Brits will not be able to work for those ACMI providers without a visa. In theory, a UK airline can outsource 50% of its operation out to a company that doesn't need to hire Brits for those jobs. Why am I the only one getting angry about this? There is no protection for the British workforce in any of this.
You're not the only one. I got quite animated about it in a letter to my MP (Tory) a couple of years ago. I still have the reply that assured me that the UK would be remaining in EASA and there was nothing for me to worry about. Another letter will be winging its way to her as soon as the xmas cheer has worn off.

Last edited by TURIN; 26th Dec 2020 at 20:34.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 20:42
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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On initial reading, it looks like there has been a massive fudge on ownership rules to enable the likes of BA etc to continue despite not being majority UK owned. New start-ups may need to be careful with ownership rules but there is a grandfather rights clause built in for the current players. So little change other than for the likes of Easyjet who have had to re-structure to work beyond the 3rd and 4th freedoms but for other operators there is little change so long as they have a UK AOC and UK based subsidiary. (Not sure what game Ryanair are playing).
As for UK pilots, it seems that they have been well and truly shafted. UK airlines are on their knees and HMG have made it virtually as easy as it was before for foreign operators to continue to push into UK territory. they can continue to bring their own staff with them or recruit from outside the UK, either through the new softly softly immigration system, intra company transfers or in the case of Irish Nationals via the Free Travel arrangements. As many have pointed out, HMG has managed to negotiate its way into a situation where Irish passport holders have more freedoms rights in the UK than British passport holders. And to add insult to injury, we have had our Freedom of movement taken away so even when (if) things start to improve, British pilots have less chance of picking up contract or ACMI work. More dole time or retrain in cyber seems to be the only option for the Brits. Thanks a lot HMG.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 21:17
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Twiglet1 View Post
And Denti that's an interesting remark about JAR FTL strange that all the EU Airlines managed with it before the 'unsafe' EASA FTL came along.
Different point of view, i guess. Back then i was a union rep and EASA, despite itís shortcomings, was actually quite an improvement over JAR as JAR was quite a bit more relaxed and allowed airline management even worse rostering options. Of course for those coming from CAP371 the EASA rules were quite a bit worse. But in reality EASA rules were the middle ground between JAR and CAP371.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 21:25
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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As for UK pilots, it seems that they have been well and truly shafted. UK airlines are on their knees and HMG have made it virtually as easy as it was before for foreign operators to continue to push into UK territory.
Can you clarify this point? EU airlines used to have the same right as UK airlines to operate from the UK - how is this still as easy?
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 22:03
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Love to know how DHL LUK reg aircraft and crew can continue to operate with point to point in Europe.

As far as Im aware West Atlantic, after a take over from Swift Air(Spain) were subjected to redundancies for the UK pilots and a relocation of their FedEx aircraft to the Swedish AOC. From what Iíve been told there is also a company migration of licences to transport Malta. Seems a smart move, but if someone from DHL UK can explain why itís not Iím sure a lot of now Maltese registered pilots would be very interested.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 06:10
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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My understanding
On jan 1 2021 UK Licenses become ICAO . There will be a 2 year transition period for EASA Licensed pilots to fly G reg aircraft . That ends after a 2 year period . It is by no means clear what the future arrangement will be . Norwegian Airlines have a number of pilots with UK Licenses on their payroll . Many of their aircraft have EU registrations . The CAA have just appointed a CEO with no airline experience on 700 K a year . I would expect an announcement fairly soon to clarify the situation .
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 08:29
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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You would expect the CAA to be hiring hundreds of staff. But that is not the impression you get from their website, which from a quick scan seemed to be mainly looking for a range of newish looking roles, for example space mission specialists. So for UK aviators and other experts looking for a new challenge the sky is not the limit. (It looks ground based before you get your hopes up.)

Have they already found enough people at EASA or elsewhere and are ready for the brave new post Brexit world. I believe something like 200 posts were transferred to EASA. Is anybody in the know how the CAA is getting on?
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 10:04
  #78 (permalink)  
hum
 
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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...rity-1.4443246
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 11:09
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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And thatís the UK CAAís reply:

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/UK-Civil-...press-release/

Iím no fan of the UK CAA (au contrair!). But I canít really fault them on this matter.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 11:23
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing to do with Brexit then. According to the Brexit agreement UK airlines can still wet lease in EU crew and aircraft, EU carriers can only wet lease from EU providers, but not from UK providers. So ryanair UK can continue to wet lease within the limits set by the local authority. Having only one aircraft on the UK register just seems to be trying to take advantage of wet lease rules.
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