Brexit and the Aviation industry
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 162
Tom Sawyer
No it wasn't. They implied it would happen, they said it should happen but never 100% committed to it. I checked the site on numerous occasions waiting for it to be updated before October. I had several telephone and emails with the CAA again all non committal and also the company I worked for could not get a solid answer.
No it wasn't. They implied it would happen, they said it should happen but never 100% committed to it. I checked the site on numerous occasions waiting for it to be updated before October. I had several telephone and emails with the CAA again all non committal and also the company I worked for could not get a solid answer.
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 162
CW247
It's pretty straightforward. Any easa license holder can currently work in the UK certifying G reg aircraft for the next 2 years (at least). The UK issued license holder does not have the same reciprocal opportunities in Europe.
I fully understand the intricacies of it all but its not a level playing field. If we aren't getting a grace period in the EU then we shouldnt be granting one to EASA issued licenses. Petty? Absolutely, but I don't see any other way for it to be fair.
It's pretty straightforward. Any easa license holder can currently work in the UK certifying G reg aircraft for the next 2 years (at least). The UK issued license holder does not have the same reciprocal opportunities in Europe.
I fully understand the intricacies of it all but its not a level playing field. If we aren't getting a grace period in the EU then we shouldnt be granting one to EASA issued licenses. Petty? Absolutely, but I don't see any other way for it to be fair.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 109
Similarly asymmetric is the Brexit "deal" permitting EU operators to do wet leases for UK companies, but not the other way round. It was difficult to conceive of a Brexit deal worse than no deal, but they seem to have achieved it!
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 27
Contact Approach
No need to get all worked up. There won’t be any decent jobs in EU or U.K. for the foreseeable future anyway. With thousands of unemployed Pilots on both ends it will take years for the industry to recover. Time to change career if you want a decent living. As when some sort of hiring starts the wages will be comparable to those of cab drivers...The world has been scared into hiding. And it won’t change until this virus is completely exterminated. However it is impossible to get rid of it completely as it mutates into other strains. This is the normal course that any flu like viruses take. Unfortunately governments have found the perfect excuse for their power hungry drive. Add Bojo‘s “green revolution” to the mix and you will understand why aviation has been completely ignored. And now Brexit to top it all off....Trudeau in Canada is another green agenda nutjob who’s destroying the aviation sector over there. There will be an uptake eventually when governments can’t keep you imprisoned anymore. But it definitely will be longer than those 2 years of validation that the UKCAA is offering...
No need to get all worked up. There won’t be any decent jobs in EU or U.K. for the foreseeable future anyway. With thousands of unemployed Pilots on both ends it will take years for the industry to recover. Time to change career if you want a decent living. As when some sort of hiring starts the wages will be comparable to those of cab drivers...The world has been scared into hiding. And it won’t change until this virus is completely exterminated. However it is impossible to get rid of it completely as it mutates into other strains. This is the normal course that any flu like viruses take. Unfortunately governments have found the perfect excuse for their power hungry drive. Add Bojo‘s “green revolution” to the mix and you will understand why aviation has been completely ignored. And now Brexit to top it all off....Trudeau in Canada is another green agenda nutjob who’s destroying the aviation sector over there. There will be an uptake eventually when governments can’t keep you imprisoned anymore. But it definitely will be longer than those 2 years of validation that the UKCAA is offering...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here and there....currently here.
Posts: 158
Yehaw, this is the wording from the CAA Microsite "After 31 December 2020, individuals will be able to hold a UK and EASA Part 66 licence concurrently.
The UK CAA is preparing to open an application process for engineers who have previously transferred their licence to another EU member state to allow the restoration of their UK licence."
The first paragraph should have been obvious from the moment the UK said it was leaving EASA. The second paragraph may have been edited since I first saw the info in late 2018 from something like "there will be a process" to "preparing an application process", but the intent has remained the same in that you will be able to get a UK Licence under a grandfather rights scheme. Combined I think it is pretty obvious what options you had. I have discussed and shown this info to a number of colleagues over the past 2 years and most of them transferred to another NAA knowing they would be able to get a UK Licence sometime in 2021. The information about recognition of EASA Licences for 2 years post Brexit has also been on the site for a while (Sept 2018 approx). There was also a lot of discussion on Airmech in late 2018/early 2019 regarding pros/cons of transfer. The information has been been known for a while. Like I said, I didn't move my licence to IAA until I knew I could get a UK Licence reissued post Brexit.
The UK CAA is preparing to open an application process for engineers who have previously transferred their licence to another EU member state to allow the restoration of their UK licence."
The first paragraph should have been obvious from the moment the UK said it was leaving EASA. The second paragraph may have been edited since I first saw the info in late 2018 from something like "there will be a process" to "preparing an application process", but the intent has remained the same in that you will be able to get a UK Licence under a grandfather rights scheme. Combined I think it is pretty obvious what options you had. I have discussed and shown this info to a number of colleagues over the past 2 years and most of them transferred to another NAA knowing they would be able to get a UK Licence sometime in 2021. The information about recognition of EASA Licences for 2 years post Brexit has also been on the site for a while (Sept 2018 approx). There was also a lot of discussion on Airmech in late 2018/early 2019 regarding pros/cons of transfer. The information has been been known for a while. Like I said, I didn't move my licence to IAA until I knew I could get a UK Licence reissued post Brexit.
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 162
Will just have to agree to disagree, like I said I there was a lot of 'should' rather than 'will'. Even when pressed the CAA wouldn't commit to this definitly being the case. Our quality manager at the time gave exactly the same response. Reading all the guidance out there I felt I couldn't know 100% it would happen.
At the time I felt it was a gamble as I envisaged being stuck with an easa licence and not getting my UK one back. Now with hindsight it was a no brainer to do it. I just hope the CAA don't make a mess of the process and start creating hoops to jump through.
At the time I felt it was a gamble as I envisaged being stuck with an easa licence and not getting my UK one back. Now with hindsight it was a no brainer to do it. I just hope the CAA don't make a mess of the process and start creating hoops to jump through.
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Most of the UK operators required their employees to have a UK issued licence (at least for flight crew), simply tranfering your licence to an other state is a breach of your contract.
This situation is even more stupid as you could have obtained any rating (TR, instructor certificate) in an other state and issued those ratings on your UK licence before the 31/12. No one knows if those ratings can now be transfered on an EASA licence. It's been almost a month that the UK-EU TCA has been signed and the EASA hasn't published anything for the validation, even though the AIRTRN.18 states that "certificates of competency and licences issued or rendered valid by one Party and still in force shall be recognised as valid by the other Party"....
This situation is even more stupid as you could have obtained any rating (TR, instructor certificate) in an other state and issued those ratings on your UK licence before the 31/12. No one knows if those ratings can now be transfered on an EASA licence. It's been almost a month that the UK-EU TCA has been signed and the EASA hasn't published anything for the validation, even though the AIRTRN.18 states that "certificates of competency and licences issued or rendered valid by one Party and still in force shall be recognised as valid by the other Party"....
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 212
The UK CAA did make it clear on the Brexit site for almost 2 years that the U.K was leaving EASA with possible future mutual recognition which has not happened yet. People did have time to transfer licenses out if they desired, and the U.K CAA did say you could get a U.K license back post Brexit.
If an employers contract required a U.K license, perhaps employees or BALPA reps could have discussed transferring prior to Ireland or somewhere else in the years prior.
A few people now are stuck with the U.K license and hopefully the U.K CAA or department of transport are trying to sort out the mutual recognition.
If UK pilots no longer have the right to work in the EU, no mutual recognition as of yet, and the CAA wants revenue. Perhaps the CAA need to require aircraft / bases in the U.K to be on the G reg, with UK license holders and U.K residency.
If an employers contract required a U.K license, perhaps employees or BALPA reps could have discussed transferring prior to Ireland or somewhere else in the years prior.
A few people now are stuck with the U.K license and hopefully the U.K CAA or department of transport are trying to sort out the mutual recognition.
If UK pilots no longer have the right to work in the EU, no mutual recognition as of yet, and the CAA wants revenue. Perhaps the CAA need to require aircraft / bases in the U.K to be on the G reg, with UK license holders and U.K residency.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,657
Can I just ask: CAP 1705, (dated Nov 2018), is still on the UK CAA website and allows holders of UK licences with:
to legally fly aircraft registered by both EASA and the EU.
Is this still valid or has the CAA simply not updated its library?
Sorry if this has already been gone through on this thread.
additional remark at Section XIII “This licence is automatically validated as per the ICAO attachment to this licence”.
Is this still valid or has the CAA simply not updated its library?
Sorry if this has already been gone through on this thread.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,272
Originally Posted by turbine100
If UK pilots no longer have the right to work in the EU, no mutual recognition as of yet, and the CAA wants revenue. Perhaps the CAA need to require aircraft / bases in the U.K to be on the G reg, with UK license holders and U.K residency.
Last edited by Denti; 10th Feb 2021 at 13:23.
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by BizJetJock
What utter nonsense! You obviously haven't read thegov.uk document properly, and/or don't understand how LPV works. We no longer are involved in the development of EGNOS, and UK companies after July will not have access to the SoL and Data services, which have nothing to do with LPV. So as per the CAA's notice, LPV approaches are unaffected.
I am getting fed up of all the Chicken Littles running around shrieking that the sky is falling....
I am getting fed up of all the Chicken Littles running around shrieking that the sky is falling....
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 71
Posts: 3,000
https://www.flyer.co.uk/shapps-confi...e/?cmpredirect
Very sad to read the reasoning behind, but I cannot really understand the last bit : how developing a completely new system from scratch in the UK will be cheaper than contributing to EGNOS. And as said before, do they think all the airports that have invested in LPV already will happily do it again with anew system ?
Very sad to read the reasoning behind, but I cannot really understand the last bit : how developing a completely new system from scratch in the UK will be cheaper than contributing to EGNOS. And as said before, do they think all the airports that have invested in LPV already will happily do it again with anew system ?
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: If this is Tuesday, it must be?
Posts: 606
Yes, sadly it appears they couldn't agree the price for continued access. I foolishly thought that on something as non political as flight safety both sides might behave like grown-ups. I now realise I am hopelessly naive.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 49
The UK Government / EASA are absolutely useless. All parties involved in allowing this to get so bad ought to be slung out and replaced by those who actually want to solve this mess. Sadly it seems like no one cares.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 64
Ryanair accepting applications for their cadet scheme and talent pool from UK passport holders, as long as they have an EASA licence (confirmed by their recruitment manager).....
https://careers.ryanair.com/cadets/
https://careers.ryanair.com/cadets/
Last edited by rogue leader; 26th Mar 2021 at 14:30.
