Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th
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We understand that and when our brethren on here proclaim that this crew will most certainly be going in for Tea and Biscuits with the CP, those of us in this safety culture here in the US are commenting that they most likely will not (unless lying is involved). We are simply educating how this incident will be handled over here. Spending several years as an expat I was disgusted with what people convinced themselves of was a “just safety culture” with some level of punishment being an ever present integral part of said culture.
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Absolutely! We are talking about the minority of countries that actually have a 'no blame' culture! The vast majority of the world, and the big ME3 would sack you immediately, and shove a pineapple up your posterior on the way out, just to prove a point!
Good for all of you above posters, but this isn't how incidents like this are treated in 75% of the world.
Good for all of you above posters, but this isn't how incidents like this are treated in 75% of the world.
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A decreasing headwind/increasing tailwind, or a wind shear, is another possibility. Add that to the possible altitude capture and flap retraction retraction at the same time and automation can lag the dynamic environment we operate in. Another reason for hand flying or requiring a quick automation downgrade to manual/hand flying.
I’ve seen pilots watch to see if the automation will ‘settle down’ or ‘catch it’ in situations that I think should have been corrected, or stabilized, by using a lower level of automation with hand flying being the quickest. There’s a possibility this was a factor in this event.
I’ve seen pilots watch to see if the automation will ‘settle down’ or ‘catch it’ in situations that I think should have been corrected, or stabilized, by using a lower level of automation with hand flying being the quickest. There’s a possibility this was a factor in this event.
Last edited by misd-agin; 1st Dec 2020 at 15:08.
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I fly the triple. Most likely scenario is that they needed over 250 kts at max weight flying clean. The FMC called for 250 since it was below 10000’ and the PF called for flaps up and the jet tried to maintain 250. That will get you a great view of the “zipper”. Had an F/O try that on me out of HKG. Luckily I caught myself as I was about to move the flap handle.
BTW, we all hand fly the 777 up to cruise (or at least above FL250) and on approach. I usually do it sooner on arrival if I know the PM is good with doing a slight bit of work. It’s never an issue if briefed.
BTW, we all hand fly the 777 up to cruise (or at least above FL250) and on approach. I usually do it sooner on arrival if I know the PM is good with doing a slight bit of work. It’s never an issue if briefed.
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This may be true, but recall that the slats would go from a sealed position (T.O.), to a gapped position (LNDG.), as part of the auto slat extension when the stall warning was sensed and then back again when the approaching stall went away. This would be irrespective of whenr the flap handle was placed....I think.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 6th Dec 2020 at 16:29.
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And consider that your ground speed has to increase with altitude to maintain the same indicated/calibrated air speed... some 6 kts per 1000 ft is a "rule of thumb" we use for ease of use when working aircraft.
Last edited by jmmoric; 7th Dec 2020 at 10:42.
This is Airbus SOP:
PF: "flap xx"
PM: (looking at speed tape) " speed checked", (moves lever if speed appropriate) "flap xx"
PF: "flap xx"
PM: (looking at speed tape) " speed checked", (moves lever if speed appropriate) "flap xx"
Last edited by Uplinker; 7th Dec 2020 at 12:48.
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BTW, we all hand fly the 777 up to cruise (or at least above FL250) and on approach.
I fly the 787 - clean speed is usually above 250kts for us but the FMC picks the higher speed after flap retraction so never been caught out.