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Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th

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Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th

Old 26th Nov 2020, 12:08
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the values shown on the ATC animation are groundspeed, not airspeed.
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 13:16
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BBK View Post
I would imagine the crew would report this incident themselves.
If Southern has an ASAP program, this would be vehicle for reporting the incident.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 00:40
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VThokie2 View Post
We understand that and when our brethren on here proclaim that this crew will most certainly be going in for Tea and Biscuits with the CP, those of us in this safety culture here in the US are commenting that they most likely will not (unless lying is involved). We are simply educating how this incident will be handled over here. Spending several years as an expat I was disgusted with what people convinced themselves of was a “just safety culture” with some level of punishment being an ever present integral part of said culture.
im digging what you’re saying. You must’ve been in Asia or the ME.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 00:42
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog View Post
Absolutely! We are talking about the minority of countries that actually have a 'no blame' culture! The vast majority of the world, and the big ME3 would sack you immediately, and shove a pineapple up your posterior on the way out, just to prove a point!

Good for all of you above posters, but this isn't how incidents like this are treated in 75% of the world.
it’s a minority of countries but a majority of airplanes. More than half of the aircraft in the world are N registered. I indentify and relate to what you’re saying.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 11:03
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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4runner, we are talking about commercial airliners and not every single-engine Cessna, Piper and Beech (etc) on the N register.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 11:11
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Well, if the ground speed didn’t change, the airspeed shouldn’t change much, not that he would have flew into a jet stream at that altitude.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 12:44
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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A decreasing headwind/increasing tailwind, or a wind shear, is another possibility. Add that to the possible altitude capture and flap retraction retraction at the same time and automation can lag the dynamic environment we operate in. Another reason for hand flying or requiring a quick automation downgrade to manual/hand flying.

I’ve seen pilots watch to see if the automation will ‘settle down’ or ‘catch it’ in situations that I think should have been corrected, or stabilized, by using a lower level of automation with hand flying being the quickest. There’s a possibility this was a factor in this event.

Last edited by misd-agin; 1st Dec 2020 at 16:08.
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Old 4th Dec 2020, 08:53
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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I fly the triple. Most likely scenario is that they needed over 250 kts at max weight flying clean. The FMC called for 250 since it was below 10000’ and the PF called for flaps up and the jet tried to maintain 250. That will get you a great view of the “zipper”. Had an F/O try that on me out of HKG. Luckily I caught myself as I was about to move the flap handle.

BTW, we all hand fly the 777 up to cruise (or at least above FL250) and on approach. I usually do it sooner on arrival if I know the PM is good with doing a slight bit of work. It’s never an issue if briefed.
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Old 5th Dec 2020, 20:24
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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This may be true, but recall that the slats would go from a sealed position (T.O.), to a gapped position (LNDG.), as part of the auto slat extension when the stall warning was sensed and then back again when the approaching stall went away. This would be irrespective of whenr the flap handle was placed....I think.

Last edited by Spooky 2; 6th Dec 2020 at 17:29.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 10:21
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flightleader View Post
Well, if the ground speed didn’t change, the airspeed shouldn’t change much, not that he would have flew into a jet stream at that altitude.
It can change more with altitude than you think, and you don't need much change before you reach the limitations of certain aircraft.

And consider that your ground speed has to increase with altitude to maintain the same indicated/calibrated air speed... some 6 kts per 1000 ft is a "rule of thumb" we use for ease of use when working aircraft.

Last edited by jmmoric; 7th Dec 2020 at 11:42.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 11:35
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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This is Airbus SOP:

PF: "flap xx"

PM: (looking at speed tape) " speed checked", (moves lever if speed appropriate) "flap xx"

Last edited by Uplinker; 7th Dec 2020 at 13:48.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 02:28
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by longisland View Post
If Southern has an ASAP program, this would be vehicle for reporting the incident.
the parent company of Southern, has a new FAA inspector. She audited their ASAP reports and tried to retroactively pursue enforcement actions against pilots. True story.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 17:01
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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BTW, we all hand fly the 777 up to cruise (or at least above FL250) and on approach.
Doesn't RVSM airspace require the autopilot to be used? Previous company used to say "no, it's just required equipment" and current operator is more along the lines of "use the ******* autopilot".

I fly the 787 - clean speed is usually above 250kts for us but the FMC picks the higher speed after flap retraction so never been caught out.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 02:10
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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no. It’s required to be installed for rvsm.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 11:26
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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RVSM doesn't start until FL290. The autopilot should normally be engaged within RVSM airspace.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 17:35
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Level off and level keeping should be automatic. Climbing in RVSM may be manual.
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