Klasjet 737 trouble flying in IMC
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Klasjet 737 trouble flying in IMC
I'm not a 737 pilot, so I'm sure I'll be corrected if my understanding of what's written here is wrong, but did this crew struggle to control the aircraft in IMC because the AP was inop?
Incident: Klasjet B735 at Madrid on Apr 5th 2019, navigation malfunction
https://www.mitma.es/recursos_mfom/c..._report_nm.pdf
Incident: Klasjet B735 at Madrid on Apr 5th 2019, navigation malfunction
https://www.mitma.es/recursos_mfom/c..._report_nm.pdf
Grossly speaking, and given the rather limited details in the reports, yes.
The aircraft took off with one autopilot (Captain's side) inoperative (legal per MEL), and lost the 2nd A/P (FO side) in the climb. So they had to fly stick and rudder and throttle by hand.
What is not clear to me is what else the failure may have entailed. There is a suggestion in the tests made later that they may have also lost one or both EADIs ("glass" artificial-horizon displays, including a speed tape and glide-slope indicators - but not a full PFD). Leaving them with the backup "clockwork" instruments and a more difficult scan. And also (?) had an air data failure (speeds, pressures and temps for the A/P).
Speed Tape EADI
Looks to me like it took them a few minutes to get their heads back into "just fly it like a C172" mode. At which point they made a successful approach and landing.
The aircraft took off with one autopilot (Captain's side) inoperative (legal per MEL), and lost the 2nd A/P (FO side) in the climb. So they had to fly stick and rudder and throttle by hand.
What is not clear to me is what else the failure may have entailed. There is a suggestion in the tests made later that they may have also lost one or both EADIs ("glass" artificial-horizon displays, including a speed tape and glide-slope indicators - but not a full PFD). Leaving them with the backup "clockwork" instruments and a more difficult scan. And also (?) had an air data failure (speeds, pressures and temps for the A/P).
Speed Tape EADI
Looks to me like it took them a few minutes to get their heads back into "just fly it like a C172" mode. At which point they made a successful approach and landing.
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It seems as though a previous flight, the plane had a display problem. Unless I missed it, that was not mentioned for the incident flight.
The opening paragraph of the analysis would suggest that they had a fully functional aircraft, with the exception of the CA's speed bug.
The phrase "proceeding with the flight" makes it sound as though they weren't on standby instruments, but that could just be a translation issue.
The opening paragraph of the analysis would suggest that they had a fully functional aircraft, with the exception of the CA's speed bug.
When analyzing this event, the first thing to note is the fact that having both autopilots become inoperative did not prevent proceeding with the flight in instrument conditions, since the instruments required to carry out a flight of these characteristics were available tothe crew at all times; namely, they had the artificial horizon, altimeter, variometer, anemometer, compass, turn and bank indicator and the engine instruments (intake pressure and engine pressure ratio).
de minimus non curat lex
Would it be unreasonable to expect at least the Captain to be capable of operating using the STANDBY INSTRUMENTS and flying an ILS approach?
This would of course require appropriate training and practice in the simulator, with recurrent training every six months?
Merely ticking the boxes to comply with the legislation probably needs a rethink.
This would of course require appropriate training and practice in the simulator, with recurrent training every six months?
Merely ticking the boxes to comply with the legislation probably needs a rethink.
Quote form the AV herald report linked above:
In the case of the captain, he was a type rating instructor (TRI(A)), meaning he was not only very familiar with the airplane, its systems and its operation, but he had to be able to explain these concepts, that is, to convey them during training to other crewmembers in an operational setting, and to other pilots in general in a training setting.
In the case of the captain, he was a type rating instructor (TRI(A)), meaning he was not only very familiar with the airplane, its systems and its operation, but he had to be able to explain these concepts, that is, to convey them during training to other crewmembers in an operational setting, and to other pilots in general in a training setting.
Check Airman
maybe I'm missing something but
It's seems like it's conditional on why the AP was inoperative. If it was an instrument input error I suspect the struggle would continue with the AP turned off
maybe I'm missing something but
It's seems like it's conditional on why the AP was inoperative. If it was an instrument input error I suspect the struggle would continue with the AP turned off
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
STANDBY instruments? I'm old enough to remember when those were the ONLY instruments. Yes, we aged aviators regularly flew the ILS to Cat 1 minima using those. Just needs practice, but economics doesn't allow the simulator time these days.
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The crew had problem with English as well. Emergency declared but didn't give the reason. Inquiry report is as vague as the crew leaves none wiser. Inability to handle with basic instruments how does it become decision making problem?
Wasn't that as a result of the odd BA policy of prohibiting manual thrust use on the Airbus fleet. Makes you wonder what the Fleet Management of some of these airlines think they are achieving?
Last edited by Meikleour; 9th Sep 2020 at 17:51. Reason: spelling
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This airline is an old boys club. A chip of the ol' Bloc. There's many in the region just like it. Mutual back scratching keeps the operation going. Albeit it, at a minimum standard.
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Easier to handle, perhaps. But in the hands of "managers" (instead of pilots), it'll still bite. Wasn't there an A319 in London that had issues flying after an engine failure?
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