TUI Zante to Cardiff - Covid
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What seems irksome is that I heard a quote from TUI about the Zante flight, and they specifically stated that passengers were obeying distancing and PPE requirements. Someone at TUI is being economical with the truth, therefore.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I think the issue is that cabin staff cannot enforce what is government regulations other than the ANO “not complying with a lawful command.” as it is the job of the police under the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020
My concern is that the Greek islands are the summer equivalent of Ischgl, people in small local accommodation coming together for a good time in the evenings in the bars that are open until all hours.
It’s a possibility that that the passengers caught the virus in Zante rather than the aircraft, in which case it’s time the government started checking out all passengers that have recently returned from the Greek islands otherwise there could be a rapid increase in numbers. The problem is that 80% of carriers show no symptoms and will only be identified by a Covid test.
My concern is that the Greek islands are the summer equivalent of Ischgl, people in small local accommodation coming together for a good time in the evenings in the bars that are open until all hours.
It’s a possibility that that the passengers caught the virus in Zante rather than the aircraft, in which case it’s time the government started checking out all passengers that have recently returned from the Greek islands otherwise there could be a rapid increase in numbers. The problem is that 80% of carriers show no symptoms and will only be identified by a Covid test.
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Frankly, I don't blame them. Pax not wearing masks, despite having been told to do so, are likely to be drunk, or part of the anti-mask brigade, or simply don't give a damn, or all three; they're likely to be aggressive and disruptive if challenged even in the gentlest way; crew is then faced with either escalating to the point of landing and calling police with enormous delay and further aggression and disruption, or continuing anyway; which would the other pax prefer?
I think the issue is that cabin staff cannot enforce what is government regulations other than the ANO “not complying with a lawful command.” as it is the job of the police under the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020.
But they shouldn't need to. UK airlines could be much more proactive than they currently appear to be.
For example, when passengers book and provide API before flying, they could be given the opportunity to register if they have a medical exemption from wearing a mask.
Anyone who hasn't registered an exemption and who then flies without a mask, or who fails to cover up when asked (only once, and politely) by the cabin crew should simply be added to a no-fly list shared by all UK airlines.
It’s a possibility that that the passengers caught the virus in Zante rather than the aircraft
A surprising number of people on here making excuses. There are existing laws that can be used as have already been mentioned. Cabin crew saying that they cannot tell people what to do should realise that if there are more instances of this, the trust of the travelling public will be lost, people will not fly and more of us will lose our jobs. Wake up, smell the coffee, grow a spine and tell the SLF to sit down, shut up, belt up, put their tray away, not smoke in the toilet and all the other lawful instructions otherwise they will find themselves in court. The alternative is not acceptable
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Originally Posted by kintyred
As a minimum the crew should film the actions of those on board so that they can be prosecuted later...
Standard practice for corporates to say such things in such situations, and for them to be quoted verbatim and usually uncritically by the media.
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Given the nature of the situation, wearing a mask is a safety measure. And it should be written in the contract of carriage. Failure to comply with it shall be treated equally to any other safety offence, e.g. not wearing a seat belt when the sign is on. Therefore, it should give the crew the right to issue a Captain's written warning in case of noncompliance. And the follow-up could be a place on the black list with no right of refund for unused future bookings.
The pressure comes from not enough people flying.
“If you feel at risk anywhere, don’t be there!!“
That’s why the crew has such an important role in making people feel safe....and thus keep their jobs
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I don't know about aeroplanes, but in ground-based situations (shops etc, and in my case, museum) staff can ask that a member of the public wears a mask. However, if they say the magic word; "exempt", nothing can be done. It's even possible to download exemption cards from the NHS website.
As I've mentioned in other threads, is this not the time for an ANO to give the Commander the right to order the individuals concerned to wear a mask and keep it worn, with the consequences if they don't to be offloaded en route, charged for the diversion and put under controlled quarantine on their return to the UK?
It's by no means certain (as it hasn't yet been tested in court) whether, absent the above, cabin crew have the authority to enforce this part of the coronavirus Regulations.
Does it fall into the same category as an instruction to return to one's seat, belt up, etc, which are lawful commands within the meaning of the ANO/ANRs, or is it akin to asking a passenger to open or close their window blind, which isn't and can be politely declined without fear of sanction ?
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As the identities of all on board are known (hopefully!) then an announcement that anybody not wearing a mask will be held financially responsible for any resulting financials losses due to infection spread among passengers. May not be be enforceable without enriching too many lawyers , but would put the wind up non-compliant SLF's. I don't think the crew should be enforcing the obvious courtesy involved in someone wearing a mask.
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I'm not sure anyone should be travelling to Greece or Turkey anyway, seeing as they are nearly at war! Never mind any Covid concerns. However, the face-covering rules need to be enforced on every flight regardless.
Would be easy for cabin crew to note down the seat number and make a report. In Australia the constabulary would likely be waiting at the airbridge to give you a limo ride back to the station for questioning.
Might work in Aus but the UK police seem to have been highly reluctant to enforce any of the coronavirus social distancing provisions..cf. multiple stories of quarantine blatantly being breeched, mass gatherings..as a result I think the chances of getting the boys in blue to attended a flight arriving at LHR because Mr Bloggs in 13A wasn't wearing a mask would be slim.
And there is the underlying problem, as Dave Reid UK has pointed out - what is the legal situation on the aircraft?
The UK Gov has been very keen on issuing guidance on the precautions to be taken regarding coronavirus but very wary of codifying such guidance into law, even if it is codified there seems to be a whole host of allowable medical reasons for not wearing a mask and no requirement for the non wearee
to be able to provide supporting documentation....
This from Gov UK, face coverings and exemptions..
and then add into that quagmire the issue of would the cabin crew insisting on a mask being worn be a "lawful command".
And there is the underlying problem, as Dave Reid UK has pointed out - what is the legal situation on the aircraft?
The UK Gov has been very keen on issuing guidance on the precautions to be taken regarding coronavirus but very wary of codifying such guidance into law, even if it is codified there seems to be a whole host of allowable medical reasons for not wearing a mask and no requirement for the non wearee
to be able to provide supporting documentation....This from Gov UK, face coverings and exemptions..
Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.
Last edited by wiggy; 2nd Sep 2020 at 06:47.
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A surprising number of people on here making excuses. There are existing laws that can be used as have already been mentioned. Cabin crew saying that they cannot tell people what to do should realise that if there are more instances of this, the trust of the travelling public will be lost, people will not fly and more of us will lose our jobs. Wake up, smell the coffee, grow a spine and tell the SLF to sit down, shut up, belt up, put their tray away, not smoke in the toilet and all the other lawful instructions otherwise they will find themselves in court. The alternative is not acceptable
Failure to be heavy handed on these Covidiots (I liked that term when I heard that one on the other passengers had called them that!) will erode the trust of all the decent travellers and that will help to bring the industry to its knees with resultant loss of jobs. No excuses, that heavy hand is vital. Some lengthy jail sentences would be very useful. Why let a handful of brainless yobs wreck so many peoples' livelihoods?
(And film them for evidence if need be. I don't care if they haven't "given permission" to be filmed. If I was in that situation of being a decent fellow pax, or crew, I haven't given them my permission to wreck my livelihood.)
Yob free aeroplanes will be one of the best ways to build up confidence in air travel.
That's not going to happen.
Apart from practical considerations, the Regulations make it clear that a one-off failure or refusal to wear a mask on public transport without a reasonable excuse gets a £100 Fixed Penalty Notice (reduced to £50 for prompt payment).
Talk of jailing offenders is pure fantasy.
Apart from practical considerations, the Regulations make it clear that a one-off failure or refusal to wear a mask on public transport without a reasonable excuse gets a £100 Fixed Penalty Notice (reduced to £50 for prompt payment).
Talk of jailing offenders is pure fantasy.
