TUI Zante to Cardiff - Covid
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Vokes55
Fabulous post advocating a sensible balanced approach where people are invited to make their own personal risk assessment and take action accordingly.
The neurotic hysteria has to end.
I'm not booking any leisure travel until the mask / social distancing / quarantine madness ends. And the worrying thing is I think about 80% of the public feel the same way.
The reality will, of course, only really hit when pilots start getting laid off en masse. This is going to happen unless things pick up very quickly. Easyjet have set the ball rolling, round 2 at BA is probably coming early next year and there is a 50% chance Virgin will collapse when the money runs out in 18 months.
In order to solve all of the above people need to be reassured that travel and holidaying are safe for the overwhelming majority. You can't do that whilst people are wearing nappies on their face and demanding 2m distance at all times.
Fabulous post advocating a sensible balanced approach where people are invited to make their own personal risk assessment and take action accordingly.
The neurotic hysteria has to end.
I'm not booking any leisure travel until the mask / social distancing / quarantine madness ends. And the worrying thing is I think about 80% of the public feel the same way.
The reality will, of course, only really hit when pilots start getting laid off en masse. This is going to happen unless things pick up very quickly. Easyjet have set the ball rolling, round 2 at BA is probably coming early next year and there is a 50% chance Virgin will collapse when the money runs out in 18 months.
In order to solve all of the above people need to be reassured that travel and holidaying are safe for the overwhelming majority. You can't do that whilst people are wearing nappies on their face and demanding 2m distance at all times.
Last edited by Le Chiffre; 8th Sep 2020 at 17:13.
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If those idiots who were wearing bum-nappies around two decades ago behaved decently we would be able to get on top of this a lot faster and people would no longer need to be 'wearing nappies on their face'. (I know that the idiot young are really infuriating the sensible young who are being given a collective bad name due to the idiots.) Quarantining for travel from other countries will only go away when the idiots in those other countries learn to behave too.
Don't go 'blaming' our (collective) governments for this mess. Blame the PRC for their gross ineptitude in letting their most famous ever export get out to infect the world. And blame the idiots who aren't behaving properly and putting so many peoples' jobs and futures (and their own) at risk
Airlines should be very, very heavy-handed with idiots who misbehave and put the livelihoods of those in the industry at risk.
Don't go 'blaming' our (collective) governments for this mess. Blame the PRC for their gross ineptitude in letting their most famous ever export get out to infect the world. And blame the idiots who aren't behaving properly and putting so many peoples' jobs and futures (and their own) at risk
Airlines should be very, very heavy-handed with idiots who misbehave and put the livelihoods of those in the industry at risk.
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There is an early document from SAGE where it is openly stated that their aim is / was to convince the general public into being afraid of the virus through highly emotive messaging painting an extremely bleak picture.
Covid has gone from UK ICU wards. Most have not seen a patient for weeks. The real problem is now mass neurotic hysteria.
Covid has gone from UK ICU wards. Most have not seen a patient for weeks. The real problem is now mass neurotic hysteria.
Maybe "Covid Marshals" should be deployed to identify and detain those irresponsible pax who flout the rules for keeping others safe?
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The whole thing now is becoming a farcical joke, lack of info changing of minds constantly, silly quarantine rules that are based on testing (if you test more, you get more infections... its not rocket science we are all built the same way) so countries testing more get put on quarantine lists yet those that don't, stay off it. If you want infections to go down then stop the testing
Its time for everyone to just grow up and get on with life, the majority of people happy to live in fear of this Illness are people who have not yet had their lives turned upside down by it, when that time comes they too will be raging
Its time for everyone to just grow up and get on with life, the majority of people happy to live in fear of this Illness are people who have not yet had their lives turned upside down by it, when that time comes they too will be raging
Last edited by Livesinafield; 10th Sep 2020 at 11:22.
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If they want people to wear face masks the way they could to it would be to change their conditions of carriage.
I'm looking forward to a remake of 'Passenger 57' and Covid Marshals.
+1 to what 'Livesinafield' said. Whole thing is a joke - we need to send a strong signal that the travel and tourism industry us open, and restore public confidence in getting on a plane.
I'm looking forward to a remake of 'Passenger 57' and Covid Marshals.
+1 to what 'Livesinafield' said. Whole thing is a joke - we need to send a strong signal that the travel and tourism industry us open, and restore public confidence in getting on a plane.
Livesinafield
That seems particularly inapt in relation to this virus. Many people are symptomless, others experience some of a wide variety of effects including lung, joint, neurological problems which may persist for months ( so far ) after the infection has passed. In addition to that tens of thousands have died (UK )
That seems particularly inapt in relation to this virus. Many people are symptomless, others experience some of a wide variety of effects including lung, joint, neurological problems which may persist for months ( so far ) after the infection has passed. In addition to that tens of thousands have died (UK )
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COVID in simplistic terms ....
Serious cases are more likely to be in the elderly, retired, population. They are mostly in receipt of pensions so are economically secure. They are frightened by the potential impact of the virus on them and therefore mostly believe that the everyone should stay indoors and the world should stop until the virus is eradicated.
The rest of the population is less likely to be affected seriously, they mostly have rent or mortgage payments and want to recover their economic situations and their “right to party”. They want the older generation to stay indoors, allowing the rest of the world to move on and get back to the “new normal” as soon as possible.
In the middle is the government who are trying to walk a tightrope between the two views.
That fairly much sums up the debate on this thread as well.
Serious cases are more likely to be in the elderly, retired, population. They are mostly in receipt of pensions so are economically secure. They are frightened by the potential impact of the virus on them and therefore mostly believe that the everyone should stay indoors and the world should stop until the virus is eradicated.
The rest of the population is less likely to be affected seriously, they mostly have rent or mortgage payments and want to recover their economic situations and their “right to party”. They want the older generation to stay indoors, allowing the rest of the world to move on and get back to the “new normal” as soon as possible.
In the middle is the government who are trying to walk a tightrope between the two views.
That fairly much sums up the debate on this thread as well.
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Tartiflette Fan
Well we can continue like this if you like for the rest of our lives if you like, until we all have no money and there is mass poverty, or we can just learn to live with it , be sensible and carry on...shutting down industries is not a way to carry on
Well we can continue like this if you like for the rest of our lives if you like, until we all have no money and there is mass poverty, or we can just learn to live with it , be sensible and carry on...shutting down industries is not a way to carry on
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The furlough 'free munny' ends next month and mass redundancies across all sectors will follow shortly thereafter.
A mortgage company will generally give you 2 or 3 months to sort your life out before they come knocking for the keys. You can get another 3 months if you can convince a Court that you have a realistic prospect of salvaging the situation, i.e. that you have gainful employment lined up.
By March there will be 3 million + unemployed with all the associated economic and social problems.
We have to learn to deal with this and live with it, or alternatively accept that 50% of people in travel and tourism are going to lose their jobs over the next 18 months.
A mortgage company will generally give you 2 or 3 months to sort your life out before they come knocking for the keys. You can get another 3 months if you can convince a Court that you have a realistic prospect of salvaging the situation, i.e. that you have gainful employment lined up.
By March there will be 3 million + unemployed with all the associated economic and social problems.
We have to learn to deal with this and live with it, or alternatively accept that 50% of people in travel and tourism are going to lose their jobs over the next 18 months.
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Further to what you said, travel, hospitality, tourism, entertainment and all other industries that cannot function normally right now account for a good 20% of all jobs out there. Do we just make 20% of all people obsolete and with no means to survive because, you know, in the "new normal" we no longer do what used to be their livelihood? And can all those jobs be replaced by alternative, "COVID-safe" roles? The answer is NO.
Staying put is only semi-attractive for as long as there's someone to pay you for it. Once you lose all your income, you will have to get out there and do something, otherwise you'll starve. And, if things go that far, COVID will be the last thing on your mind. But do we have to learn it the hard way?
Staying put is only semi-attractive for as long as there's someone to pay you for it. Once you lose all your income, you will have to get out there and do something, otherwise you'll starve. And, if things go that far, COVID will be the last thing on your mind. But do we have to learn it the hard way?
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PilotLZ: I think that a proportion have just put things on hold in the hope of an eventual vaccine. Of course, if that proves impossible (and it may well be so) we are going to learn to live with Covid-19. However, it does require sensible precautions to be maintained and respected by all whatever their age. This is what is failing at present and that's why I for one will not travel to typical holiday destinations. My wife and I go out and support local business including cafes, restaurants and such like establishments. Right now we feel safer being close to home and not to have to mix with the (mainly younger) idiots that show no common sense whatsoever and who are now basically responsible for the recent surges in many countries. In short, your philosophy is fine, but only if basic precautions are maintained and adhered to. For me that's a key factor to get through this.
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Exactly. As I previously mentioned, safety measures are essential for making activities inclusive for as many people as possible. The better those measures are adhered to, the more people will feel safe and confident undertaking the activities in question. And everyone will benefit from it.
COVID in simplistic terms ....
Serious cases are more likely to be in the elderly, retired, population. They are mostly in receipt of pensions so are economically secure. They are frightened by the potential impact of the virus on them and therefore mostly believe that the everyone should stay indoors and the world should stop until the virus is eradicated.
Serious cases are more likely to be in the elderly, retired, population. They are mostly in receipt of pensions so are economically secure. They are frightened by the potential impact of the virus on them and therefore mostly believe that the everyone should stay indoors and the world should stop until the virus is eradicated.
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Another one who needs to put the paper down and get a hobby. During the "First wave", around 100,000 people per day were being infected all across the country, not 3500 in a selection of local areas.
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SamYeager
Simplistic? Yes - I'm well under 60, years off being able to retire, but I am still being advised by government (central and local) and doctors to go out as little as possible, and only return to work if I can assure it is "covid secure" - which I can't, so I can't work (or at least not the type of job I had before). That is current guidance for the "extremely clinically vulnerable" category (and in a local area heading towards another lockdown right now because of idiots going out and spreading it), and I am sticking to it because in March being proactive and acting in advance of being told to shield saved me when it spread through my wife's workplace and she brought it home. Some of her colleagues family members got it. Yep, they had "pre-existing conditions", so do I. like me they were not dying any time soon (until covid). Like me they were probably looking forward to retiring in another decade or two. I still am, if we can get through this, they aren't.
Second wave "mythical"? - not if you actually look at the data rather than the headline "deaths" rate. We (some of us, not me) ignored the warnings from Italy before the first wave with the result that we followed them a few weeks behind. We can ignore the warnings from Spain and France now, or we can follow them a few weeks behind (which is where our cases are). Deaths are a lagging indicator, by 3-4 weeks plus reporting delays, and with the rise in cases being driven by the less-vulnerable young, the lag will be even bigger. Eventually the case load amongst the young will reach a critical mass and start to spill over into the old and vulnerable - this is apparently now showing in the test data today (seen reports stating that, but not checked today's data myself yet). Rise in hospitalizations will follow (some increase already showing in the data) and then, inevitably, rise in deaths - Spain is already there. Problem is that on a exponential curve (currently said to be doubling every week) with a four week lag, by the time the death rate hits a worrying level, it's too late to prevent a level at least an order of magnitude higher. We have ample warning and ample understanding now of how this goes, will we brake in time or will we leave it too late and inexorably go of the end of the runway, again?
Simplistic? Yes - I'm well under 60, years off being able to retire, but I am still being advised by government (central and local) and doctors to go out as little as possible, and only return to work if I can assure it is "covid secure" - which I can't, so I can't work (or at least not the type of job I had before). That is current guidance for the "extremely clinically vulnerable" category (and in a local area heading towards another lockdown right now because of idiots going out and spreading it), and I am sticking to it because in March being proactive and acting in advance of being told to shield saved me when it spread through my wife's workplace and she brought it home. Some of her colleagues family members got it. Yep, they had "pre-existing conditions", so do I. like me they were not dying any time soon (until covid). Like me they were probably looking forward to retiring in another decade or two. I still am, if we can get through this, they aren't.
Second wave "mythical"? - not if you actually look at the data rather than the headline "deaths" rate. We (some of us, not me) ignored the warnings from Italy before the first wave with the result that we followed them a few weeks behind. We can ignore the warnings from Spain and France now, or we can follow them a few weeks behind (which is where our cases are). Deaths are a lagging indicator, by 3-4 weeks plus reporting delays, and with the rise in cases being driven by the less-vulnerable young, the lag will be even bigger. Eventually the case load amongst the young will reach a critical mass and start to spill over into the old and vulnerable - this is apparently now showing in the test data today (seen reports stating that, but not checked today's data myself yet). Rise in hospitalizations will follow (some increase already showing in the data) and then, inevitably, rise in deaths - Spain is already there. Problem is that on a exponential curve (currently said to be doubling every week) with a four week lag, by the time the death rate hits a worrying level, it's too late to prevent a level at least an order of magnitude higher. We have ample warning and ample understanding now of how this goes, will we brake in time or will we leave it too late and inexorably go of the end of the runway, again?
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Here we have the problem, infected does not mean suffering from the virus. All it means is that you have tested positive, not that you are in danger, require hospital care or indeed die from the infection. 'The real number to be quoted should be..... x number infected, x number hospitalized and x number died. ....... all of course in percentages vs other health risks.
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There is no second wave... You can't have a second wave until the first is gone.
In march the virus was spreading like a virus does and infecting millions across the UK, and we were testing 10,000 a day, now we have massively ramped up the testing to over 25 times that, and some local infections are appearing as expected with the relaxation of lockdown rules, as long as those numbers are manageable which for now they appear to be.
I just don't think people appreciate how many infections were active during March and April in the UK
If you are clinically vulnerable to this then you're doing the right thing shielding to keep safe but the other 99.74% are going to be just fine and need to carry on with their lives and learn to live with it
In march the virus was spreading like a virus does and infecting millions across the UK, and we were testing 10,000 a day, now we have massively ramped up the testing to over 25 times that, and some local infections are appearing as expected with the relaxation of lockdown rules, as long as those numbers are manageable which for now they appear to be.
I just don't think people appreciate how many infections were active during March and April in the UK
If you are clinically vulnerable to this then you're doing the right thing shielding to keep safe but the other 99.74% are going to be just fine and need to carry on with their lives and learn to live with it