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Air India Runway Excursion

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Air India Runway Excursion

Old 11th Aug 2020, 09:16
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Vref F40 is 141kias at 65ton, min add +5 (if gusty wind maybe they used +15??) gives 157kias on the MCP, correct for pressure/temp results in 162ktas and with 14kts tailwing gives the 176kts groundspeed
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 09:39
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B737Capt View Post
Vref F40 is 141kias at 65ton, min add +5 (if gusty wind maybe they used +15??
There is no wind correction apart from the standard +5 for tailwinds, even with gusts. That would be just pouring petrol on an already large fire.

Quote from FCTM:
Note: Do not apply wind additives for steady tailwinds or tailwind gusts. Set command speed at VREF + 5 knots (autothrottle connected or disconnected).
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 09:45
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Humpback runway

The subject run way has a hump in the middle and sloping to both ends. Elevation is 343m right in the middle, sloping to 315m at start of RWY10 and 326m at start of RWY28. So if the runway is contaminated with water and rubber, plane landing deep and moving down the slope, where even flow of water is likely, disaster is imminent.... RWY10/28 presumably does not have Centre light but only Edge lights. Add to that Heavy downpour and failing natural light....
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 12:10
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TopGunMaverick View Post
The subject run way has a hump in the middle and sloping to both ends. Elevation is 343m right in the middle, sloping to 315m at start of RWY10 and 326m at start of RWY28.
No, wrong units.

The 10 THR elevation is 314 feet, and the TDZ elevation 338 feet.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 12:33
  #185 (permalink)  

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C310driver

Think Command Gradient. Think “Culture”. That will answer your questions.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 13:28
  #186 (permalink)  
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Thanks, tdracer...of course!

vilas, good demonstration; the A340 & A330 main gear are similar - slight extension on rotation for tail clearance. The oleo is shortened slightly on retraction and lengthened as part of the extension cycle.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 13:32
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone familiar with the airfield recall if there are distance to go markers on the runway?



Approach to RWY10




Landing spot approx 1300 metes in from RWY10 threshhold.


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Old 11th Aug 2020, 13:46
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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I have absolutely no doubt that the cultural aspect will be massive in this accident. The accident cockpit dynamic has all the ingredients for a typical steep cockpit gradient. Highly decorated ex Air Force commander, instructor (?), ex test pilot vs plain jane line FO. I’m curious to learn about the decision making in the final minute of the accident flight.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 15:08
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Here’s something very interesting. Upholds my theory that he PF tried to take off again after realizing that he couldn’t stop before the end … 😳
An extremely poor decision at the very least …

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...ficer-6549840/
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 15:37
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Have you experienced the cockpit culture in India first hand?
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 15:44
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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True

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
No, wrong units.

The 10 THR elevation is 314 feet, and the TDZ elevation 338 feet.
Thank you for correcting. Sorry, my mistake.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 16:35
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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We ain't in the theory business

King on a Wing

“There was no sound before the crash. The endpoint of the runway is parallel to the entrance of the perimeter gate from where we could see any flight take off or land,” Singh told indianexpress.com.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 17:07
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by redpill View Post
Have you experienced the cockpit culture in India first hand?
If this is directed towards me then no, I havenít.

Please enlighten me, Iím eager to know.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 17:14
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Teddy Robinson View Post
King on a Wing

ďThere was no sound before the crash.
The impression I got from that useful eyewitness testimony is that the no sound comment was referring to unusual noises/explosions/bangs and not necessarily the engine noise at a high thrust setting. Having experienced aircraft movements for the last 5yrs, he may consider the sound of aircraft engines at takeoff as normal.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 17:41
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C310driver
So they may have slowed to ~ 100kts before realising that they were running out of runway. Again, these are just my 2 cents.
I would think that landing almost halfway down the runway would have helped them realise that they were running out of runway!
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 17:43
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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According to news reports Captain Sathe was given a state funeral today for his heroism.

Reports reveal that according to aviation experts, the decision by Sathe and Kumar to shut off the engines after touch down was very important since it ensured that the plane did not catch fire.

This eventually ended up saving the lives of many passengers who [would] have died if the engines had caught fire and resulted in a bigger death rate.
Late Air India Pilot, Captain Deepak Sathe’s Traits Which Made Him A Real Hero By
Chirali Sharma

August 11, 2020
On 7th August a tragic accident took place where an Air India Express flight crashed at the Karipur Airport in Kozhikode, Kerala taking the lives of both its pilot and co-pilot along.

In total, 18 people had died that unfortunate day when the plane crashed due to bad weather that had made the runway slippery and led to the plane being unable to make a safe landing.

The flight coming from Dubai had 190 passengers onboard and it overshot the table-top runway at the airport due to heavy rains. This led to the plane crashing and breaking into two pieces with one falling in a valley almost 35-feet below.

News reported that pilot-in-command Captain Deepak Sathe had passed away instantly, while co-pilot Captain Abhishek Kumar succumbing to injuries later on.

Today the captain’s body was laid to rest in Mumbai with him getting full state honours and representatives from army, navy, coastguard, Mumbai police and city mayor along with his family members and some politicians too paying their respects to him.

Union civil aviation minister Hardeep Puri also stated that Pilot Sathe was one of the “most experienced and distinguished commanders – Deepak Sathe. He had landed on this airfield as many as 27 times, including this year. He was a very accomplished, experienced, decorated person in command of the aircraft. There is absolutely no doubt over their competence.”

So here we take a look at some things that truly made him into an inspiration and not someone we should forget easily:

Sathe Probably Saved Many Lives

Many people often get confused at the low number of death rate in the crash considering how much damage to the aircraft there was.

However, it seems that might be because of the quick thinking of the pilots themselves more than anything.

Reports reveal that according to aviation experts, the decision by Sathe and Kumar to shut off the engines after touch down was very important since it ensured that the plane did not catch fire.

This eventually ended up saving the lives of many passengers who have died if the engines had caught fire and resulted in a bigger death rate.
https://edtimes.in/late-air-india-pi...m-a-real-hero/
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 17:49
  #197 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by C310driver View Post
If this is directed towards me then no, I havenít.

Please enlighten me, Iím eager to know.
Re read #142 & # 155.
Might give you a Ďfavourí of Indian aviation.

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Old 11th Aug 2020, 20:00
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Reports reveal that according to aviation experts, the decision by Sathe and Kumar to shut off the engines after touch down was very important since it ensured that the plane did not catch fire.
well...Take a look:
Certainly not the case.


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Old 11th Aug 2020, 20:01
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B737Capt View Post
Vref F40 is 141kias at 65ton, min add +5 (if gusty wind maybe they used +15??) gives 157kias on the MCP, correct for pressure/temp results in 162ktas and with 14kts tailwing gives the 176kts groundspeed
.....and landed half way down the very wet runway and expected to stop !!!!!! Seriously ?

Look no further gentlemen, it was a b awful decision and landing.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 20:06
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Where is that photo coming from?
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