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Italy threatens to ban Ryanair over alleged Covid-19 guideline violations

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Italy threatens to ban Ryanair over alleged Covid-19 guideline violations

Old 6th Aug 2020, 19:10
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Italy threatens to ban Ryanair over alleged Covid-19 guideline violations

In today's Guardian ( can't link )

"The Italian civil aviation authority accused the Dublin-based airline of “repeated violation of anti-Covid-19 health measures drafted by the Italian government and in force to protect passengers’ health”.

Continued violation of the rules by the airline could mean it is banned from flying to or from I taly, or the regulator could impose a limit of 50% capacity on Ryanair flights to give passengers more space."

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 08:18
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Not sure Ryanair would be overly keen to operate a flight if the load was capped at 50%.

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 11:54
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So economics, capitalism, profit and cash muscle trump safety and democracy? Isn't that when the dialogue breaks down and less than optimal decisions are made?
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 16:45
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Well, last week it was Ryanair threatening to leave Italy. You know in the end that they both need each other.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 18:26
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So economics, capitalism, profit and cash muscle trump safety and democracy?
At the end of the day, unfortunately yes. If the Government view this a a PSO then they must be prepared to pay or subsidise it. They cannot expect any commercial (for profit) operation to run a route that doesn’t show a profit and running at a loss is one thing that happens when you limit load factors for safety purposes!
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 22:34
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The topic of limiting load factors "for safety" has been done to death by all governing bodies and keeping the middle seat empty was confirmed to be useless on multiple occasions. Nonetheless, some people keep pretending that they know better. What is affordable for the precious Alitalia which has been bleeding cash like crazy for years but is nonetheless in business thanks to the generous government support is unthinkable for a truly commercial airline that actually has to operate on a cash-positive basis in order to survive.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 23:38
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Nobody has ever proven that keeping the middleseat free do not have an impact, or is useless as you say. However many with ulterior motives argue that if you can't do everything on distancing you should do nothing.
If only charities should take heed of what is needed in pandemic times or other times of crisis and business should go on as ususal, we will all ultimately be doomed.
In times of need it becomes more clear who don't really care. Many airlines do what they can, others do what won't cost them a cent, and even then only if pushed. Ryanair have not shown itself as a leeding light in these times of need. Maybe one day soon they will wake up to that a company of their size can't live on the 1/3 of the population who is careless and will travel no matter what. They ultimately need the others that will only travel with those who they feel are doing their best, and this time they can't be lured by ultralow fares.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 06:10
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They cannot expect any commercial (for profit) operation to run a route that doesn’t show a profit and running at a loss is one thing that happens when you limit load factors for safety purposes!
If the regulator has limited your number of seats, then you put the fares up. Simple. There is a pandemic on, you know. And make the middle-seat-vacant rule world-wide, so it's a level playing field for all.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 09:17
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I took a Ryanair flight in Italy from GOA to STN last week. It was about 50% full but bizarrely the auto-seat allocation system had put complete strangers next to each other whilst leaving whole rows completely empty

In the aisle adjacent to ours (we were 2 people travelling) there were 3 passengers who clearly did not know each other but the 3 rows ahead of them and 2 behind were completely empty. So when the doors closed, 2 of the 3 simply moved seats...but of course the opportunity to distance had already been lost as they had sat directly next to each other for some 15-20 minutes during the boarding process.

A bit of a tangent but my daughter and BF were also on the same flight and on the same booking reference. On a 50% full flight, one was given the seat 26E and the other 11F. However, Ryanair repeatedly and categorically deny they split pax up on the same booking reference (to force pax to pay for specific seats). Difficult to believe them with seats like that on a 50% full flight
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 09:18
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Capn Bloggs

it's only about someone trying to get LCC out of Italy to favour the Alitalia recovery, if at all Alitalia will not disappear forever.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 09:21
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I suppose it could be the case that they allow the seating algorithm to randomly allocate individuals to seats per weight and balance etc. while consciously ignoring common PNRs...

To the pattern-forming human brain, what appears to be malevolent could well just be the (un)intended consequence of that process
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 11:02
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
And make the middle-seat-vacant rule world-wide, so it's a level playing field for all.
How does that work on regional aircraft with 2-2 seating? Half of the aircraft empty?
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 17:30
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Bonkey

They definitely do split people up. I have flown with my friends EDI-STN on the same booking and I was in row 2 with my mate down in 22. Flight was about 75% full. The return flight had us together, but still one behind the other.

I've also had the opposite. On 2 separate bookings I've had all 3 of us magically assigned a whole row together just be checking in simultaneously on 2 devices.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 18:26
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Ryanair always seat me and my wife a long way apart - and it's free! I think Mr O'Leary has missed a trick here because I would actually pay for this to happen.

As a treat for her (and mine, I think) wedding anniversary tomorrow I was going to buy her a seat next to me on next week's flight - but then I thought better of it.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 21:18
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He's missed more than one trick along those lines, imagine the potential of parents paying not to be sat near their children (on other airlines I've seen parents in business with their kids back in cattle class). Then think how much would everyone else pay to not be sat next to someone elses screaming kids...
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 23:07
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It’s not a case of splitting people up — rather it’s just that the seating algorithm has been configured to treat each person as an individual rather than attempting to keep groups together. Random means a 1-in189 chance that you will get any particular seat.

It’d be interesting to research whether there’s a safety implication with this approach — in the event of an emergency will people exit directly or will they attempt to help their loved ones at the other end of the plane?
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 00:34
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Ryanair have long ago admitted they allocate seats randomely to they who don't reserve a certain one, in the hope to sell them one. But they claim it is not deliberately middle seats, it just isn't window or aisle seats. One would however think they would have cop on enough to change this policy in the middel of a pandemic. They have had 6 months to do it now and they have increased their IT with a factor of 10 in the later years adding doens of programmers exactly so they could have more and faster control over their systems. Maybe a litle punishment from the italians is what is needed to light a CoVid19 candle under Ryanair management.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 11:42
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I was forced to fly twice during the brief period in which Spain/UK travel didn't imply quarantine. In both occasions I was assigned the middle seat of an empty half-row. In one of these cases the whole row was empty. The planes were around 1/3 occupation at best.

I haven't read how Ryanair claims to assign seats but it's clear that within the randomness they have rules. They save window/aisle seats for those paying. When you are assigning middle seats first, obviously couples will end separated. This happened also to me in one of these flights, I was in the front (row 6 IIRC) and my travel partner was in a twenty-odd seat.

I find it ridiculous; given that paying for a seat gives you weeks to pick the seat in advance, in the last 48h the non-paying pax can check in it would be minimum politeness to keep people together. But I guess last minute travelers paying for a seat must be kept happy (or less disgruntled).

Once you're made aware of how your system works, incompetence/shortsightedness/cheapness/whatever does turn into malice. The result is a cold war between you and your customers, or should I say your captive clientele. I would never fly Ryanair if I had an alternative for my means. Splitting couples out of greediness has some offensive quality that crosses a line. They should at least factor in the expected plane occupation, particularly in covid times, to recover some goodwill.

​​​​​​Likewise they could be frank about it and it would be less insulting. I can understand (particularly as an often solo traveler) they saying "we save window/aisle for paying customers" but they have to say "you'll be assigned a random seat, probably a middle seat" as if it were a magical occurrence.

Sorry for the rant. I work in optimization and all this boggles my mind. But then, they have the numbers.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:12
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i think you’re overthinking and assuming way too much.
the onload software will onload and assign seats to ensure the aircraft is in trim and then fine tune it to ensure optimum weight and balance thought the airplane. At least, that’s what BA does, and given it impacts the cost of the flight; I would imagine Ryanair does too.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:51
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I'm sure that's true.

But none of the above would preclude sitting people on the same booking together.
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