Italy threatens to ban Ryanair over alleged Covid-19 guideline violations
robocoder
In case you missed it: Ryanair is a for profit organization. You booked on Ryanair because they were the cheapest, and you were too cheap to pay extra for pre assigned seats. If Ryanair would have given you seats together the next time you definitely wouldn't have paid extra (you proved you were cheap booking them in the first place), so it is definitely in their best interest to put everyone who doesn't pay extra for a seat-assignment in a middle seat as far away from the rest of their group as possible. If you don't like that fly legacy (or Netjets). I remember when the charter company I worked for doubled their profit margin by not handing out free news papers (it went from $1 to $2 per pax......). We all are trying to get the cheapest ride and then complain about the race to the bottom.
In case you missed it: Ryanair is a for profit organization. You booked on Ryanair because they were the cheapest, and you were too cheap to pay extra for pre assigned seats. If Ryanair would have given you seats together the next time you definitely wouldn't have paid extra (you proved you were cheap booking them in the first place), so it is definitely in their best interest to put everyone who doesn't pay extra for a seat-assignment in a middle seat as far away from the rest of their group as possible. If you don't like that fly legacy (or Netjets). I remember when the charter company I worked for doubled their profit margin by not handing out free news papers (it went from $1 to $2 per pax......). We all are trying to get the cheapest ride and then complain about the race to the bottom.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the end we are still fighting a global pandemic whilst trying to keep air travel numbers up. In that Situation it makes absolutely no sense to let strangers sit together because of some algorithm. Also it makes no sense to keep your distance in the airport just to suddenly give a crap about it once the aircraft reaches the parking position. Been there, saw it. So yes, Ryanair should be made responsible for that.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hans brinker: I fly what I fly depending on context, and sometimes not even for personal reasons. You bet that if I fly with a company, I feel free to criticize its practices as part of the bargain; and I factor in these practices for whenever I have a choice on the flights I buy.
Back on topic, FR's algorithm is opaque, profit-driven, and (IMHO) offensive for little to no gain in at least some cases (like half-empty planes), yet it has an impact on public health. There are growing concerns about the opaque algorithms that increasingly govern our lives and, being from a computer science background myself, I'm happy these things are scrutinized.
Back on topic, FR's algorithm is opaque, profit-driven, and (IMHO) offensive for little to no gain in at least some cases (like half-empty planes), yet it has an impact on public health. There are growing concerns about the opaque algorithms that increasingly govern our lives and, being from a computer science background myself, I'm happy these things are scrutinized.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are not even trying to keep train travel numbers up, or bus travel - quite the contrary with social distancing rules still in place.
Um, I think FR's entire operation is profit-driven, it's a business. We either nationalise or subsidise airlines (see bus, trains above, noting that in the UK the entire railway industry is now effectively nationalised as a result), or they have to be profit driven to survive. They have to be profit-driven within the rules of course, which goes back to the purpose of the thread - are they breaking the rules or not? Let's see the rule the their seating algorithm is breaking.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many would say, with some justification, that trying to "keep air travel numbers up" makes absolutely no sense while fighting a global pandemic.
We are not even trying to keep train travel numbers up, or bus travel - quite the contrary with social distancing rules still in place.
We are not even trying to keep train travel numbers up, or bus travel - quite the contrary with social distancing rules still in place.
Real-world data bodes well for flying, too. Australia has been using contact tracing to investigate Covid transmission on hundreds of flights, and has found that while infected people got on planes, nobody got infected on a plane. Worldwide, there have been a couple of individual transmissions possibly linked to flights, but no superspreading-type events.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those horrified with the prospect of sitting next to a stranger, some Chinese airlines offered (and probably still offer) the opportunity to book the adjacent seats at a reduced cost, maybe 50% of the cost of that seat for a fare-paying passenger. This way, the seat is not "wasted" from a commercial standpoint and the customer gets their much-needed peace of mind.
As for the overall concept of social distancing on aircraft - if it's that important to have social distancing everywhere and regardless of masks, sophisticated air conditioning etc, then why is it that I haven't seen many terrestrial vehicles which have had their capacity chopped by a third or more for the sake of it? Why TfL can run packed tube trains with extremely primitive ventilation and certainly no disinfection on each station, but at the same time Ryanair should not be allowed to fly a full aircraft? Can we speak of a "level playing field" when social distancing rules apply to airlines with a huge cost base, but not to bus operators? Surely owning/leasing and running a coach costs cheaper than owning/leasing and running a 737? This is simply discriminatory. Especially in the light of the fact that aircraft have been proven to be far more COVID-safe than many other closed environments.
As for the overall concept of social distancing on aircraft - if it's that important to have social distancing everywhere and regardless of masks, sophisticated air conditioning etc, then why is it that I haven't seen many terrestrial vehicles which have had their capacity chopped by a third or more for the sake of it? Why TfL can run packed tube trains with extremely primitive ventilation and certainly no disinfection on each station, but at the same time Ryanair should not be allowed to fly a full aircraft? Can we speak of a "level playing field" when social distancing rules apply to airlines with a huge cost base, but not to bus operators? Surely owning/leasing and running a coach costs cheaper than owning/leasing and running a 737? This is simply discriminatory. Especially in the light of the fact that aircraft have been proven to be far more COVID-safe than many other closed environments.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In order to maintain social distancing between our customers, and in accordance with Government guidance, we will only be able to allow 1 in 2 passengers compared to our usual capacity on each bus.
Everyone will be sat in a window seat to allow for social distancing on board.
It is important that you sit in your designated coach and seat number shown on your ticket or reservation confirmation email. All seats are socially distanced from other passengers.
My understanding of the tube is that usage is way down, but at peak covid TFL were allegedly running 20-30% of services (for 20% of pax) because they "Had 30% off sick" according to the mayor, who clearly isn't very good at maths. He also isn't very good at telling the whole truth either as it's been revealed since that TFL in fact furloughed thousands of staff at the time, to save money. TFL is broke too, already had to be bailed out by the government, with more needed in autumn, which is going to get interesting because Boris may fancy letting it go bust and taking it off the mayor entirely.
Cars are, anecdotally, running at reduced capacity too - when groups are driving somewhere to meet they are no longer sharing cars across households. That's just anecdotal based on our household experience though.
Bikes and scooters are same capacity as before, but then they are nearly all single-seat anyway.
What other terrestrial vehicles are there?
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: French alps
Age: 75
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Respectfully, not sure where you have been looking either Infrequent ?
I flew EJ from France to UK 2 weeks ago on a flight that was 50% full. I return on Friday on one which (currently) looks much less booked. Many cancelled after the 14th August rule-change, so that’s no surprise. Yesterday we boarded a Park n Ride BUS in Devon which was 100% fully seated. No doubt there is a variation between an operator's declarations and what is actually happening.
Replacing strategic and logical planning with panicky reactive legislation is what is making it hard for everyone.
I hope the airlines survive...
I flew EJ from France to UK 2 weeks ago on a flight that was 50% full. I return on Friday on one which (currently) looks much less booked. Many cancelled after the 14th August rule-change, so that’s no surprise. Yesterday we boarded a Park n Ride BUS in Devon which was 100% fully seated. No doubt there is a variation between an operator's declarations and what is actually happening.
Replacing strategic and logical planning with panicky reactive legislation is what is making it hard for everyone.
I hope the airlines survive...
Last edited by Outofthefray; 19th Aug 2020 at 10:43. Reason: Paragraph correction
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Um, I think FR's entire operation is profit-driven, it's a business. We either nationalise or subsidise airlines (see bus, trains above, noting that in the UK the entire railway industry is now effectively nationalised as a result), or they have to be profit driven to survive. They have to be profit-driven within the rules of course, which goes back to the purpose of the thread - are they breaking the rules or not? Let's see the rule the their seating algorithm is breaking.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't personally left the house for over 5 months, I chose to "shield" some weeks before the doctors actually advised me that I was clinically extremely vulnerable, a decision that quite possibly saved my life, as my wife (in a high risk occupation) then brought it home, we think (no testing available at that time unless hospitalised). Because I was isolated from the rest of the family, I didn't get it, so I'm still here. I am not about to stop shielding either, despite the government "pausing" it, they did so on the bases that cases were going down on the very same day Boris stood up and said "we can't ignore the evidence that cases are going up". I'll trust my own assessment over one that contradicts the facts.
Anyway, the point is that various terrestrial transport operators are clearly stating that they are operating at reduced capacity due to regulations / guidelines, so aviation is not being singled out or treated differently. The fact that some operators may be ignoring the rules or guidelines and running full doesn't mean that those rules and guidelines don't exist. I'm sure there are Ryanairs on road and rail too (TFL...).
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many would say, with some justification, that trying to "keep air travel numbers up" makes absolutely no sense while fighting a global pandemic.
We are not even trying to keep train travel numbers up, or bus travel - quite the contrary with social distancing rules still in place.
We are not even trying to keep train travel numbers up, or bus travel - quite the contrary with social distancing rules still in place.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Here
Age: 73
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
your statement is incorrect or your'e not properly informed on the Italian rules ( that changes very rapidly), cause carry on are allowed. Flown 10 days ago within italy and all of the rules complied with, including disembarking by row; but as we all know, not all passengers in all flights in all airlines are so excited in following rules.
Last edited by Flapsupbedsdown; 20th Aug 2020 at 08:08.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having travelled both easyJet and Ryanair for some years, easyJet win hands down. Very recently did Stn-Cag, checked in online, allocated a-f for out and return for a party of 6.
Stairs at front and rear both times, Ryanair is the lowest cost carrier and it shows.
2-3 hour flights are generally single aisle anyway; Having travelled business class to Paris with BA pre-covid, all they did was put a tray in the middle seat. Seat pitch was unchanged, worth the extra, hell no, but I wasn't paying.
Stairs at front and rear both times, Ryanair is the lowest cost carrier and it shows.
2-3 hour flights are generally single aisle anyway; Having travelled business class to Paris with BA pre-covid, all they did was put a tray in the middle seat. Seat pitch was unchanged, worth the extra, hell no, but I wasn't paying.
Last edited by Momoe; 27th Aug 2020 at 08:18. Reason: Error correction
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disembarking by row is an absolute godsend, reduces the rush to get your (oversized) 'hand' luggage.
Very calm and actually more efficient IMO, what would help is having staff directing passengers to the most appropriate door when boarding, folks with tickets for row 20 should be using rear doors, not walking through from 1 to 20
Very calm and actually more efficient IMO, what would help is having staff directing passengers to the most appropriate door when boarding, folks with tickets for row 20 should be using rear doors, not walking through from 1 to 20
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He's missed more than one trick along those lines, imagine the potential of parents paying not to be sat near their children (on other airlines I've seen parents in business with their kids back in cattle class). Then think how much would everyone else pay to not be sat next to someone elses screaming kids...